7027 Thornbury Castle

Poor old Thornbury. Thank heavens she now has an owner who isn't full of waffle, or good intentions. These regular updates are a joy.

 

I have to say, being an ignoramus on things Great Western, that frame looks rather flimsy to my eye. It obviously did the job, but doesn't look half as substantial as a plate frame bogie... Or has it been stripped down?

Richard.

 

Hi Richard
I think it is stripped right down. There are lots of bolts showing where other brackets/castings are to be attached - which will make it a far more substantial affair!

 

Just a quick "heads up" that "Thornbury" was mentioned at the GCR AGM as being steadily progressed (along with 70013 and the 04).

 

Thanks for the image. This bar frame style of bogie which was introduced in the USA, is flimsy but the bogie frame does not have to do much other than provide horizontal guidance and the bars are quite sturdy in that direction. The frame does not transmit the loco weight or any braking or acceleration loads. The missing bits (wheelsets, springs, equalising beams etc) do not add to the rigidity. Although Stanier took the design to the LMS (Princess, Duchess), the LMS modified the design to use plate frames for the 4-6-0 classes, later used on BR Standards. There seem to be practical problems with the original design, not least that one has to take off the whole of the bottom frame to remove the wheelsets, and I suspect the flimsiness of the dismantled frame enabled the horns to spring and an oversized axlebox to be inserted into 46207's bogie which caused its derailment at Weedon.

The function of the bogie design is described in the Weedon accident report:
8. The weight of the engine at the front end is transmitted to the bogie centre casting by heavy cast steel brackets bolted to the main frames at each side. A hemispherical projection on the underside of each bracket is seated in a cast iron cup with a plane under-surface, which slides, in accordance with the lateral displacement of the bogie, on an oil-lubricated gunmetal alloy pad on the bogie centre casting. As shown by Fig. 8, there is a socket at each side of the centre casting which bears directly on a spigot formed integrally with the buckle of the laminated spring, and the weight on the spring is transferred to the axle boxes by the twin compensating beams which are linked to it. The comparatively light bar frames of the bogie, of which the long horn stays form the lower members, thus carry no weight and serve only to locate the axles longitudinally and laterally. Nor is any weight carried by the central bogie pivot. Side control is by coil springs acting with an initial centring force of 4 tons, rising to 5 tons at the maximum displacement to one side of 2 7/8 ins.

 

I saw that more progress has been made on 7027, as the crank axle has been painted and the axle box hornguides have been dimensioned, presumably for machining the axleboxes? Unfortunately I was unable to get a picture.

 

Things are (or getting ready to be moved) moving
Cinders, at long last you shall come to the ball!

 

Quick question about tenders with Thornbury Castle. When Tyseley bought it out of Barry in 1972 did they buy a tender from Woodhams at the same time. If they did what happened to it as the tender it is with now was bought direct from BR departmental service.

 

This is from post #76 by GWR 4707.....
"I assume that the two tender bodies are the Collett one it came with and the Hawksworth example I recall had been fabricated for her".

 

Thanks for finding that post but I don't think it answers my original question.
The tender chassis currently with 7027 is a Collett one that was purchased from Swindon Works in the 1980's, the tank has been sold to the group who own 4979. A new Hawksworth tank has been built.

What I am trying to find out is if 7027 came out of Woodhams at Barry with a tender when it was purchased in 1972. If it was, this tender must have been later used with another loco in preservation, most likely one of the current Vintage Train fleet.

 

7027 left Barry for Tyseley in August 1972 and IIRC it was by rail which would necessitate it having a tender attached for the journey. Perhaps one of the railway mags. of the time carried a photo which could confirm that it had its own tender. Certainly the next convoy for Tyseley (5080, 4160 & 5637) in August 1974 was by rail. 7027 was displayed at Buckfastleigh at one time (mid to late 80's?) and looks as if it still has its ex Barry tender in the photo below.
Ray.

 

Ray,

Thanks for that information.

I'll have to look in the Railway Magazine & Railway World for this period. Does anyone know of any pictures?

 

Doesn't look like a Castle chimney?

Dave

 

As far as I know........

7027 arrived at Woodhams in May 1964 and on p86 of Blake & Nicholson it is shown photographed on 30th September 1967 still coupled to it's 4000g Collet tender.
7027 was the 23rd departure from Woodhams and left in August 1972 as a source of spares for 'other' Castles at Tyseley. I was initially not sure whether it lost it's tender to another loco or whether it left for Tyseley with tender however I believed another tender was purchased from Swindon Works (Dept 1 oil carrier) which relate to the frames currently at Loughborough for use with 7027 and new Hawksworth tank.

From Tender Heritage site : 'In departmental use at Swindon Works until the 1980's (and initially purchased by Erlestoke Manor group at Bewdley). Examination of the tender has found the number 2637 stamped on many parts, on some the 7 looks more like a 1 though the angle of the stroke suggests a possibly mis-stamped 7. The tank from this tender has since been sold to the Furness Railway Trust for use on the Collett chassis that will run with GWR Hall no. 4979.'

https://www.flickr.com/photos/113816008@N03/49112202971/in/album-72157711908754858/

This image on Flickr taken at Tyseley in 1977 shows both 7027 and 5080 unrestored and both intact with Collet tenders however....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dubde...2isoC6p-2bBGWRF-2bWCTSx-7njjx2-bqx7wM-2bQhaNZ

 

Here's my photo of 7027 at Barry, taken in 1969.....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hemerdon/26609198728

 

Indeed. In 1972 when 7027 left Woodhams it was bereft of it's chimney so possibly was adorned with another 'GWR type' for appearance at preservation sites.

 

There has been more painting of the frames and the driving wheels appear to be finished, with protection covering of the journals. The tender frames were not obviously in view outside or inside.

 

Here are the painted frames today in Lbro shed .....

 

Interestingly shows the 'witness marks' of several differing tender side buffers on the buffing plate - didn't Swindon standardise the centres for these buffers?