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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Apparently the station is closed currently because it is unmanned (I wonder why?....) and so there would be no staff to regulate passengers getting onto the 'right'parts of the train. Same applies at Doniford Halt.

    Mind you, when Halloween comes around it will be the ideal location for a 'ghost train' or two :)
     
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  2. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Not going to make any comment but:-
    The Aln Valley railway launched an appeal for £100,000 for restoration work on a viaduct.
    Within 2 weeks I believe £60,000 has been raised.
     
  3. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    There is another possibility, a couple actually. One is that the volunteers are carrying on, doing what they do well, and mentally isolate themselves from certain contentious PLC decisions. "I shall carry on because the WSR is more important, and I shall quietly hope for change at the top". Another is that a volunteer is still at that "in love" phase, and is very happy to ignore the shortcomings that may be present, or is blinded to those failings by a biased information source which only puts out news skewed to support the PLC. Or they may see the failings quite clearly, and decide that someone, however flawed, is better inside your tent pissing out than outside your tent pissing in. They may carry on quietly, trying not to rock the boat, fearful that they may find themselves excommunicated if they dare speak out.
    Maybe all these other possibilities are wrong, but to say that the only possible conclusion is that the PLC have the total support and respect of all is flawed.
    Marie Antoinette, 1788 " The people are not complaining"
    Marie Antoinette, 1789 " Let them eat cake"
    Marie Antoinette , 1793 "Well they've never done that before....."
     
  4. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    I don't know - and it's unusual for railways (or any companies) to give that level of detail. Off the top of my head I can think of several eventualities that together might (or might not) total £12,000 in that month:

    Timing difference - deferred expenditure or early or late payments?
    Up to £13,725 of donations (the first, early July update figure)?
    Rescheduled loan payments?
    Government payments (furlough) or reliefs (rates, VAT)?
    Unfilled vacancies?
    Unspent contingency?
    Unspent budget on, say, hires?
    Legacies?
    Rent receivable on Watchet from the extended lease period to August?

    One month is never going to give more than a snapshot, but the figures quoted to me don't seem untoward

    Patrick
     
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  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There's a lot in there to agree with, but to take issue with two points:

    Firstly, I'm not sure compulsion (as in 'perhaps footplate "entitlement" should be more closely linked to served workshop time.') is the right answer to a skills shortage: it risks just getting people to do jobs for which they are unsuitable, which wastes everyone's time. Moreover, I can think of people who are good engine men, know nothing of one end of a spanner from another, yet are brilliant fundraisers. I also know people who are good on the mechanical side who have no particular desire to work on the footplate. It would be a big opportunity cost to get the former group, for example, making a horlicks of repainting some part when they could be very usefully employed dealing with the vast admin of raising money. I think for footplate grades there is value in having "shed days" i.e. not every turn is a footplate turn, but within reason. I wouldn't want to say that until you have led a team to strip down and rebuild a loco you can't pick up a shovel.

    The other point about new builds: it's worth noting that the single greatest example of a "one off new builds of lost obscure classes" is on the WSR: 9351. It's a class so obscure that not only was it not lost, but it never existed in the first place. Yet I suspect that in maintenance terms it has vast amounts in common with a large prairie. So new builds aren't per se problematic in maintenance terms. More to the point, many engines now are getting to the point that they need more or less new boilers, new cylinders, frames, wheel sets etc. Such tasks aren't easier to accomplish just because the loco exists. Different new build projects have different rationales, but for those strongly tied to existing lines, I think there is a realisation that they may give several periods of fairly routine service without needing significant major work. I can think of a "historic" loco gradually being rebuilt that already has new frame plates and cylinders; has a pending decision about whether to have a new boiler or a total rebuild of the existing one; and will get new tanks, bunker and cab to finish. The wheels, axle boxes, motion and motion bracket and some small parts such as the reverser, lubricator and so on will likely be the only original parts to end up in the finished product - not massively different from a new build.

    I think amalgamation of owning groups will come about as you suggest. Sharing of patterns and knowledge is already routine; I'm not sure there is necessarily an advantage to concentrating similar types on a particular railway given such knowledge sharing, though I'm used to a background in which there was far less standardisation even "back in the day" than Swindon produced. Variety is a motivating factor in its own right.

    Tom
     
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  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Has the WSR gone into the maritime business too ? :)
     
  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    So, an old ruin and now a new ruin too :)
     
  8. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    My view on the urgent need for an alternative structure is well known to the chairs of all three WSR boards, each one seems to respect the view of this independent thinker, and I just wanted folks here to understand that, given your earlier statement.

    Steve
    wsr.org.uk
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Absolute BS Mr Coleby, I have no dog in this fight, but to say what you’ve said is just plain daft, there’s been so many people so ill treated by those in charge that it really beggars belief you can say that people like myself are out of touch with the real world.
    In my 37 years on this planet, I’ve always taken the view that you treat people how you’d like to be treated yourself, I don’t think it’s too hard or difficult to do, but for some reason in a certain part of Somerset it seems to be the opposite. If yours is the attitude of those at the top of the boards of the WSR then it faces an almighty battle to win support from neutrals like myself.
     
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  10. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Should you ever try to turn thoughts into actions then you will have the support of many, including myself.
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh Ian , i've just about stopped laughing , sides genuinely ache

    you are the WSR's Rudi Guiliani to the chairs Trump , its like a twilight zone we've entered , an argument so bizarre we could be in Belarus (other dictatorships are available) where any dissent is suppressed and all is well with the world

    I presume the action taken against the four is fake news , the S&D trust decided to leave of their own volition and the magic money tree is producing a bumper crop in the WSRHT Orchard .

    anyway I'm off to search for another missing trailer , apparently this one may have a signal box plate or two on it and maybe Ian you could share with us this much vaunted other side as others keep telling me it exists but no one seems willing to share
     
  12. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Ian, you are way, way wrong on this. If you want a specific example then just look at the NHS. I worked within NHS Estates for 5 years and all the time I was cutting corners, doing deals with contractors to get jobs done and fighting to get my staff simple things like the tools to do the job, simply because the management was (and as far as I know still is) grossly incompetent, greedy (Did you hear about the NHS exec using his NHS credit card to pay for helicopter flying lessons? True!) and totally focussed on maintaining the management structure rather than on maintaining the service the NHS provides. Over a 4 year period I watched them close beds, then wards, then cottage hospitals and even A&E departments (the excuses? rationalisation, making a centre of excellence, cost savings etc etc) in the same time they opened 3 new administration buildings! (The closest was over half a mile away from the nearest hospital by the way) And this was just one county.

    But that didn't stop the service, that didn't make us all walk away - we all got on and did what's needed because we all knew it was needed. It kept (and still keeps) working because of the junior staff (if I may call them that) and despite the, so called, senior managements worst efforts.

    I believe the same is true with the WSR. The volunteers want the railway to run and, I believe, go out of their way to ensure it does (from a practical point of view) and also to ensure that passengers are kept happy, which is what gives the volunteers the satisfaction to keep them coming back. The senior management seem to have little or no connection with the day to day operations, the seem to spend most of their time on grandiose schemes regarding heavy locos or organising the latest round of begging, Oops, sorry, appeals. In many ways I believe this suits the volunteers and staff as they can just ignore the higher ups and get on with their jobs, after all, they are the ones that actually run the railway from day to day and they are the ones who deserve all the praise for the turnout of the rolling stock and state of the stations, not the board.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  13. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I would not suggest you do not believe what you have written but really?
    Forget about Heritage Lines there are many commercial companies where the staff are excellent but the management are a shambles, and the staff have no time for them. I dealt with many companies like that during my 41 years in Procurement, and many TOC's are poorly managed but have staff who go the extra mile.
    The two things are not inevitably linked.
     
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  14. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    As a bit of an aside, I would have expected a bit more from JJP's contentious statement the other day about the bus service from Dunster to Minehead. Something along the lines of 'my mates and I who own buses have agreed to provide for the next few months a facility free of charge to the WSR'.

    I could add a lot more, but I am already in "Big Al" 's 'doghouse'.
     
  15. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    I'm not saying that there aren't issues. I'm just saying that the repetitive posting on here from a small group of forum members isn't going to help these issues.

    As for your waiting for my reply, it's often not worth the time in this "discussion" as it sadly seems to help these same people to see any other viewpoint.

    There is a limit to what a discussion forum can do. If these members want the changes they keep demanding, they need to look at other options. Churning out the same old rhetoric on here isn't helping anyone.
     
  16. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    So two of us are not sleeping ! :)

    It seems to me that you are side-stepping my point. You keep making the claim that "these same people" will not see any other viewpoint. I say "what other viewpoint" ? Despite many requests for explanations, mostly both polite and reasoned, no answer is received. As I've observed before, most of those raising questions are experienced in either business or railway management, or both, and their questions are valid. If explanations were given then much of the criticism would fade away. As it is the PLC has lost the goodwill of some serious players in the heritage movement but seems totally unaware of the damage it has caused itself. If you don't believe this is so then just look at the current results of the appeal which is struggling to get any traction at all.
    Of course there is a limit to what a discussion forum can do but it is very useful for exchanging views and ideas gathered from all over the "hobby". A wise management would be keeping an eye on this to pick up ideas and, by engaging in the conversations, raise their profile and gain support.
    You make the observation that "If these members want the changes they keep demanding, they need to look at other options". I'm not sure if you are referring to members of the WSR and its associated bodies, or to members of this forum. Either way, perhaps you could explain what these other options are, as you imply that you have alternatives in mind.
    Once again I look forward to your thoughts.
     
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  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    So, nothing to see here, move along the bus, and whilst your at it, please donate to our fuel costs, they don't run on hot air you know, ;)
    But saying that, theres plenty coming from people who once held positions of power, at trustee level, and board level, Personal animosity seems to also be a factor, with us, or against us .no middle ground, allowed, they show concern for members of the board's well being, but none for others who lost their ability to pursue their hobby, or groups who now have to relocate due to what? having rules that meant having to say no, to the PLC,
     
  18. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    No worries, I'll continue turning my thoughts into actions. Persuading the right people of the need for urgent change is the key. Meanwhile, there is also a railway to keep alive and I hope you too are active in that respect.

    Steve
    wsr.org.uk
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I guess the point about "urgent" change, though, is that the railway has been presented with at least two opportunities in the last five or six years to embrace a transformative structural change, and it has wilfully refused to take either opportunity. Reasons have varied between a "now isn't the right time" through to just ostrich-like head-in-the-sand refusal to even engage in the thought process of what "better" might look like.

    If the railway (collectively) had used the Coombes review as a catalyst for a wider debate about the structural shape needed for a 21st century heritage attraction reliant on volunteer labour and altruistic donation to survive, quite possibly none of the last three years of turmoil need have happened; and the structural transformation could be well underway now in an ordered and widely-supported fashion.

    Given that none of that happened, it is very hard to arrive at any reasonable conclusion other than that those in positions of power on the railway are quite content to see it bleed to death rather than arrange for the patient to be transferred to hospital - urgently.

    Tom
     
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  20. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    If I were to make an obvious reply to @ikcdab unlike other lines there is no obvious mechanism for what I might loosely refer to as 'The Membership' to make changes to the management, direction or structure of the WSR unlike other lines.

    Indeed when an attempt was made to try and give the membership the chance to vote on restructuring the support organisations in line with the recommendations made in an independent report, the 'Railway Management' those involved were thrown out or disciplined.
     
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