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Vintage Trains - 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Will RL, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. William Fletcher

    William Fletcher Member

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    No diesel required. Perfection!
     
  2. PhilB

    PhilB New Member

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    More to the point - perfection in the art & craft of video/film production!
     
  3. NathanP

    NathanP Member

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    How are VT doing the seating arrangements now that they don't issue actual tickets? Perhaps someone who was on the SLS trip on Saturday will know. I have my booking confirmation for this Saturday's Cardiff trip which has the coach number I selected when booking. So I'm just going to print that out and turn up with it on Saturday. I'm assuming stewards will direct passengers to vacant seats once they've boarded, but it seems a bit odd that they're not issuing actual tickets anymore or advising of seat numbers.
     
  4. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Without doubt a well crafted video but perception of art is always subjective and I wish @KristianGWR would not order us to enjoy his offerings.
     
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  5. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    I hope that you're joking. 'Enjoy' is the modern way of saying 'I hope you enjoy it' ..... and almost all of us do. :rolleyes:

    I would like to thank Kristian for posting his various clips. Excellent planning, filming and sound. <BJ>
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  6. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Not so, other video posters write, "I hope you enjoy..." or nothing at all and "Enjoy" is the imperative whatever you might think. As it happens I often enjoy @KristianGWR 's videos but that has nothing to do with it.
     
  7. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    What on earth are you on about? At what stage does Kristian order you to enjoy what he produces?

    The comedian Ricky Gervais summed it up perfectly when discussing trolls on Twitter. It’s like walking past a town community board, seeing a note offering guitar lessons, getting angry and going... “I DON’T BLOODY WANT GUITAR LESSONS!”

    The exact same logic applies here. If you don’t want to enjoy it, then don’t enjoy it.

    James
     
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  8. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    That gets me too!

    I always do, but would rather not be instructed to :)
     
  9. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I thought I was a grumpy old git, maybe not.
    It is an Americanism, maybe get annoyed at the abuse of the English Language but it is not an instruction.
    What do you say to a server when they put your meal down and say enjoy then?
     
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  10. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I would say, "That remains to be seen.". And like it or not "Enjoy" is an imperative in both English and American.
     
  11. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    Some would say ''what a miserable, petty ......''
     
  12. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    "I DON'T BLOODY WANT GUITAR LESSONS EITHER!!!!!!!!"

    James
     
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  13. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Kristian, I hope the criticisms of your choice of words won't deter you from posting more videos (or even worse, won't cause you to resign form the forum). I must admit, I'm none too keen on the use of the single word "enjoy", but it's not worth making a big fuss about such things. I have appreciated your videos and judging from the number of "likes" you receive, I'm clearly not the only one. Please keep them coming!
     
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  14. KristianGWR

    KristianGWR Member

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    Not at all, it's been jolly entertaining! ;)
     
  15. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    I wish I'd not said anything, as it's no big deal, just on a par with train station ;)

    I too always appreciate the sheer quality of his videos, and as a fellow videographer, albeit many divisions lower, I know it's not easy to make them seem so effortless.
     
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  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Somebody should do a write up of last Saturday and as no-one else has, here's one.

    The SLS 70th Anniversary Special 25th September 2021

    A Sceptical Timer's Tale

    Back in early May I confirmed with Vintage Trains that there was not going to be a diesel on the rear of this train. I duly booked a table for 4 and we were looking forward to reacquainting ourselves with 7029.

    I was seriously unhappy when the news 'sneaked out' that due to the train being serviced in Milton Sidings near Didcot the diesel would be on the train to drag it back to Swindon for the return as it would take too long run Clun around, haul the train back at 45 mph, then run it around in Swindon to be ready for a 1545 departure. But I talked it over with John, my timer friend from Cardiff, and we decided we'd take a chance that @Will RL was right in his post on Nat Pres that the box would do nothing other than drag the train back to Swindon and from Snow Hill to Warwick Road.

    We'd have kicked ourselves if we'd missed unassisted climbs of Sapperton and Hatton; as well as doing some high speed running behind a double chimney castle with around a 425 ton load.

    The plan was to spend the day doing some serious timing and also listening for telltale signs that the box wasn't behaving itself. It would also give us the opportunity to find out what the on train VT Experience was in 2021.

    At Tyseley 47773 was already attached to the stock with the Buffet directly in front so it was definitely coming along. It was a bit shambolic joining the train as Coach H and I weren't in the consist so we were told to sit in Coach F. No-one was on board guiding passengers to reserved seats and we thought for a minute there wasn't going to be a table for 4 free. We'd met up Bob and John, who we've been on steam hauled trains with since the 1980s so we grabbed the last 4+4 across. Not a great route for timers as milepost sides change 3 times en route. After John joined us at Snow Hill Bob and John kindly offered to swap sides with John and I when mileposts changed.

    On Warwick Road Platform the crew said in no uncertain terms that the diesel would not work other than if it was genuinely needed so we hoped for a good day from Signal Control and for all other trains to be running to time. Our driver was Martyn Fake, a new name to us as we haven't travelled with VT since 2018.

    Coach F was in front of the Buffet so we were confident we'd feel it if the diesel went into drive mode as there's a compression of the buffers as well as a very different note from the engines of the Class 47. Had to admit it was superbly turned out. Clun undoubtedly was but it was too far away to see. With a long blast of the whistle - been a very long time since we heard a GWR whistle on a mainline tour - Clun slowly lifted the train away from Warwick Road. We were held for a stopper on the Mainline Junction but once the signal went green we heard that familiar Castle bark and Clun hauled the train up the remainder of the bank out of the depot and out onto the mainline.

    The run to Worcester

    We had the expected gentle run down the 528f through Small Heath to Bordesley Jn, passed at 27. Then through Moor Street on the level, 23.5, before we heard the superb loud bark as 7029 charged up the 45r through the tunnel, 16, into Snow Hill Station. John joined us and told us what a racket they heard on the platform. He enjoyed it so much he didn't think to record it on his iPhone!!

    It was good to meet @Will RL who'd recognised the Bear and his Minder from my NP Avatar. It's always good to put a face to a Nat Pres 'handle' and we had a few conversations during the day about the performance and other things.

    Back to the journey. It isn't flat across the top to The Hawthorns. Level out of Snow Hill with a short sharp 47f to mp129 3/4, 21.5, before 7029 tackled the 3/4m of 125r through Hockley Tunnels, 21.5, and Jewellery Quarter, 21. No sudden rise in speed. Only tick over sound from the rear. Past mp130 1/4 on the level, 30.4; then a bit of level/117f to mp130 3/4, 37.5 onto a bit of 492r. Then there was almost 2 miles of 100r, with a bit of 207r in the middle where Handworth and Smethwick was. We took 37.3 onto the climb. 7029 sounded superb as it climbed away from 37.3 at the start of the 100r, and speed only dropped to 35.3 at the end of the climb at mp133. So far so good. Performance well within what we'd expected and nothing other than tick over from the box.

    Downgrade grade from mp133; slowed through Smethwick Galton Bridge and across Smethwick West, 28, then a noisy climb on 235r for nearly a mile to Langley Green, 21.9. The preceding service was holding us up a bit as there was little change on mil+ of average 275r to Rowley Regis, 21.6. We ran down through Old Hill Tunnel, 20 in, 31ish out and just trundled down through Cradley Heath, 34.8, Lye, 38.8 and then slowed for Stourbridge North Jn, 17.4. Then we brought to a stand at signals for 2 minutes close to mp142 on the 301r. Nice noisy restart and we left the mile of 301r left at 20+.

    2 miles of 121f where speed rose to 33. Then we braked on Hagley approach, mp140 1/2ish, 19.1. Speed only rose to a max of 43.2 as we left the 121f for a mile or so of 165f where we were slowed for Blakedown, 22. Always boring this section as there always seems to be a service train close by. Down through Kidderminster, 47.6, with a long whistle. Pitchford Hall gleamed in the sun alongside us on the SVR. We hit a max of 56.4 at mp133 1/4 before the brakes came in again. We drifted through Hartlebury at 19.5. Nothing much of interest for us from there through Droitwich Spa and onto Worcester Shrub Hill.

    On arrival there, unlike most passengers, we went to the back and were told the diesel had been on Zero all the time. There was a crew change there and the diesel's driver told us he intended leaving it on Zero unless anything unexpected happened.

    Worcester to Standish Junction

    Decent start out of Shrub Hill, 36.6 past mp119 then slowed on the approach to Norton Jn, 25.7. We were allowed straight out onto the Birmingham-Bristol Main Line at Abbotswood Jn, mp68 3/4 at 31. A lovely stretch of rail to play with then, 2 1/2 miles of 301f. We passed mp69 at 33.4; mp70 at 49.1 - superb sound from up front, easily heard 8 back. Onwards and downwards as they say, and up to 56.6 as we left the 301f for 3/4m of level/848f, 58. Then 2 miles of 385f, mp75 passed at 61; mp73 at 64.5 and over the River Avon Viaduct, end of section at 67.6. Next were 2 1/2 miles of level where speed was held; mp75 68.2; mp76 68.7. the mile of 319r saw an expected slow fall to 66 at mp77 1/4, section end. We passed mp78 on the mile+ of 301f and picked up to 71.7 at mp78 1/2; then after a short 654r and 3/4m of 311f, we flashed through Ashchurch at 74.3. Excellent stuff from Martyn Fake and his fireman. Good omens for the rest of the day.

    Onto a mile+ of 297r and an expected slow fall to 71.6 and then over 1/2m of 719f to mp81 3/4, no real change. Then on the 2 miles of 285r, speed slowly fell to 69. Not too far from Cheltenham Spa now and after mp83 3/4, 2 miles of 305r over Swindon Road, 66.9; then 7029 was eased, Morris Hill, mp85, 58.2, then down to 26.6 through the Spa Station. Nice average speed of 64 from mp69 to 84. Well within the capability of a double chimney castle with the load we had.

    The next bit was a rarity; we were due to run down grade for 9 miles, non-stop through both Barnwood and Gloucester Yard Junctions. Normally Control find a service leaving Gloucester or a freight to hold us behind. Did they? Nope. Once clear of the station the sound level increased as Martyn worked 7029 on the first mile of 368r to get the train up to 48 at mp88. There the gradient changed to 304f for 6 miles. A chance to get to our max of 75 again. No unnatural speed increase. We passed mp89 at 58.3; mp90 at 64.5; mp91 at 69.8 and mp92, Barnwood Jn at 73.8. Then the brakes came in and we wondered as speed fell to 52.5 at Gloucester Yard Jn; then down to 47.7 on the 344f at mp93 1/2.

    No panic as we weren't held there and speed rose to 58 at mp96 on the level. According to both the GWR and Midland Gradient Profiles there's a mile and a half of 104r from mp96 1/2. Looking out at the track it doesn't really look like a 104r. As it happened, we didn't get the chance to make a judgement on the performance on the day. We hit it at 58+ and 3/4m in were down to 55.7 - then braked a bit early for Standish Jn. RTT didn't show train in front of us and we crossed over onto the Stroud road at 28 and for once weren't held at the signal just after mp106 3/4, passed at 48.2.

    Standish Jn to Sapperton Summit

    On to the serious part of the morning. The aim is to get to the allowed 50 mph through Stroud and then pick up as much speed as possible before St Mary's Crossing where the steep part of Sapperton Bank commenced. Nice pickup and got noisier on the mile+ of 347r/300r to Stonehouse, 41. Over 3/4m 302f/533f, speed rose to 46.7 at mp104. 7029 was really being worked hard then, and over the mile of 276r/620r we held 46.7. Then we hit the mile of respite, 272f/234f/level, and kudos to Martyn we passed through Stroud at 50.1. Superb Castle roar echoed around the Golden Valley as 7029 was pushed hard over the 2 1/2m of 250r over Capels Viaduct, 53.7. Mileposts were hard to spot and the next one we saw was 100 1/2 where speed was still 53. Couldn't see mp100, the end of the 250r. After the short 100f, we crossed Bourne Viaduct on the 185r at 53.4 and speed rose to our maximum, a creditable 55.9, as we came off the 1/4m+ level section at Brinscombe Path.

    This was followed by last of the 'easy' bits from mp99 1/4, a mile of 310r/103r. Hard work up front took us past St Mary's Crossing at 54.1, and to 53 at mp98 3/4. The gradient steepened over 1/2m of 75r, end milepost missed but we got mp98 on the 70r, 44.7. Excellent so far. Over Chalford Viaduct on the 70r at 42.8 and with a real cacophony of four cylinder roar, Clun slowly lost speed over the close to a mile of 74r, mp97 passed at 38.5. There's a short level bit onto Frampton Viaduct, 38, then 75r to mp96 1/2, 35 that took us onto the steepest part of the climb, the 60r to the tunnel entrance. We got the final 2 mileposts as 7029 fought the grade; mp96 1/4, 32.1; and mp96, 29.3, before speed fell slightly to 29 as we entered Sapperton Long Tunnel. We felt a single slip and then the easing of the grade to 90r before we left the tunnel - the summit is just outside and the GPS burst into life and claimed we were doing 32.5. A really excellent climb with not an indication anywhere that the box on the back provided any kind of assistance.

    Sapperton Summit to Swindon

    Normally we stop at Kemble for water but with REG on the front this wouldn't be necessary so we expected a charge down the bank - and got one. We passed mp94 just outside Short Tunnel at 57.5 on the mile+ of 94f; then down the mile of 100f, mp93 1/4, 67.6.we hit 73.2 at mp92 on the 143f and blasted through Kemble at 76. The brakes came in as we passed mp 89 1/4 still at 76 on the 2 1/2 miles of 330f, and then averaged mid to high 60s down to the outskirts of Swindon. Despite us being 8 minutes early, Control allowed us into Platform 1 at Swindon at 1118.

    First thing we did was wander back to chat to the diesel driver who confirmed the box had been left on Zero all the way from Worcester. The sparkling clean and shiny vents supported that.

    So a truly superb morning with a locomotive in superb condition well in command of its heavy train. Despite what was said on train it wasn't really equivalent to a 12 coach train as the box is shorter than a carriage, the length of the train being slightly less than 10 coaches. That makes a big difference on Sapperton's reverse curves as if we had 12 up from St Mary's Crossing onwards the train would have been spread over 2/3 curves with the consequent drag effect of the extra length and the resistance from the bogies on the 11th and 12th coach.

    What to do in Swindon for over 3 hours

    Watch 7029 leave the station at 1144, then find somewhere to eat and drink. The train was still in the platform at noon so we wandered out of the station. We walked to the Retail Place in the old works. A nice long walk but there weren't any places to get a proper meal and a beer. We asked a the security men was there anywhere decent to go and he suggested we try the Weighbridge that's in the old Work's weighbridge building. He said it was a bit of a trek but it was a nice afternoon. On the way we came across the turntable in front of a housing development on the site of the huge A Shop. We looked further down the road and saw the Weighbridge a few hundred yards away.

    It's a Harper's Steakhouse and had a decent menu. Only one hand pump with Dark Star Hophead on. It was OK but we decided to have a bottle of a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc with our food. Mrs S likes it too so a bottle doesn't go far. Di and I shared a prawn, crab and smoked salmon cocktail starter while John tackled a wriggling calamari!. Good starters. The food was very good. I was the only one who had a steak, a beautifully prepared 8 oz medium ribeye. Di had a half roast then grilled chicken while John had a weird salad but helped out with some of the vegetables and chicken as it was a big meal. Too stuffed to tackle a dessert. Well worth the long walk.

    47773 dragged the train back into the platform around 1535 giving us plenty of time to get comfortable for a prompt right time departure at 1545.

    Swindon to Oxford

    The return started with a beautiful 24 miles of Brunel's railway, most of it on gently falling gradients from 880f to 660f with a few level bits to Didcot West. Traditionally this is a bit of a race track where locomotives can stretch their legs and run at their 75mph maximum speed for most of the distance. Gentle start and not much of a bark from up front until mp76 where we joined the main line proper on the 834r. It was 834r for another 4 1/2 miles. Lovely smooth acceleration; mp75, 51.1; mp74, 57.6; mp73, 62.5; mp72, 66.3; mp71 1/2, Shrivenham, end of 834f, 68. Over the next mile of level track we hit 70.1 and that took us onto a mile and a half of 754f to mp69, 74. We reached our maximum allowed speed of 75 at mo68 1/2 on the 660f and didn't drop below this speed until mp58 1/2 after a brake application as we passed mp59. Seemed an bit of an early application of the brakes as it was still 5 miles to Didcot West Jn.

    Despite the excellent running from Swindon, Didcot Control let the Didcot-Banbury Stopper across Didcot North Junction ahead of us. Such joy. Station speeds: Appleford 22; Culham 37.8. After mp59, the start of the 2 miles of average 350r, it got noisy and speed rose to 56 at mp59 and 60 as we passed mp60. Down to Kennington Jn, 357f for a mile and a half, 62 and then around 60 until we braked just before Oxford Station, passed at 55. Then Martyn brought the train to a stand for our booked stop at North Jn.

    Oxford to Banbury

    Not done this route for years. Noisy departure on the mile+ on the level, 36.8 onto the close to 2 miles of 240r/150r/430r, ended at 50.7. We passed Kidlington on the level at 54.7, then charged the mile of 498r to mp70 1/4, 58.2. Speed fell back a bit on a on 1/2m 320r, 56.9 at mp71. The run to Tackley was checked possibly due to a platform Clearance, 17. Down the 2 miles of 266f to 49; then on the level mile to 55.6 at mp74 3/4. Then a mile of 330r with Heyford in the middle, 56.9, 57.3 onto a mile and a half of 330r, 60.3 at mp77 1/2. After 1/2m level, we passed mp78 1/2 on the start of 1 1/2m 621f at 63.3 and left the section at 69.6 as we passed through Aynho. Through the junction at 72 and the mile of 381r to the junction had little effect, passed at 71.8. Through Kings Sutton on the level at 69 then we ran in the mid 60s on the 1077r towards Banbury for a 20 minute stop. The diesel driver confirmed the box had been on Zero since Swindon.

    Banbury to Hatton

    Back in the day, steam hauled trains charged away from Banbury and when second valve was opened on both Castles and the King there was a superb echo off the industrial buildings on the right. The run on to Leamington was always a rapid one. Martyn whistled up and we set off for Leamington and then Hatton Bank. What a disappointment - the buildings aren't there anymore so no loud echo. We made a decent start on the mile of 390r and took 31.3 onto the mile of 304r. Lots of noise up front as 7029 was worked hard and left the section at 37.1. Short level bit, 38.8, then mp84 1/4, 41.4 on start of 1 1/2m of 300r, left at 47.3. bit of 371r then a steeper mile+ of 179r to mp91, 48.7. Short 3/4m of 448f/level, 55, then 1/2m 335r, 55.7. Then a change to falling gradients, 251f for 1 3/4m, left at a good 75. Speed was held at our maximum 75 for another 2 miles of lev/284f/835f/lev before we hit the mile+ of 451f/779r through Harbury Cutting and into the tunnel where speed had fallen to 72.5.

    Out of the tunnel and by mp101 back to 75 down the long 187f to mp103. More falling grades for the mile or so to Leamington Spa, mp106, passed at 31 on the 347f. Back in the day the charge of Hatton Bank started here with 1/2m or so of 109f. We got to 42 then slowed on the 114r for the 10 mph restriction through Warwick Station, mp108 on the platform, passed at 10.6. Compromised the climb somewhat!! Bit of level/187f after the station and 7029 was worked hard to get to 27.6 at mp108 1/2. Serious increased sound from the front and black smoke galore as we hit the short 95r/605r and passed mp109 1/4 at 38.5. It's not a really steep bank, 1/2m 108r to mp109 3/4, 38; 1/2m at 103r to mp110 1/4, 38; then a solid 38 on the 110r to mp111 1/2. Speed picked up to 41 on the level and to 46.4 on the 117r through Hatton Station. A decent climb. Out of interest on a proper run from Leamington Spa with no restriction through Warwick, 5029 Nunney Castle with 12 on got close to 50 mph at the top of the bank in the early 1990s.

    Hatton to Snow Hill

    Over the summit from mp113 1/2 there's a mile and a half of 168f/200f/level where speed rose to 63.8. 7029 was worked hard on the mile of 231r to mp115 3/4, 62.3; then the mile of 639r to mp116 3/4, 63.9. We flashed through Lapworth on the 258r at 63.6 and only dropped a mile an hour or so on the 183r/350r to Dorridge, mp119, 62. On the level to mp120 3/4, speed steadily rose to 66.8. Dropped to 66.5 through Widney Manor. Mostly level and falling grades to Moor /street. Martyn used the mile of 225 to get to 70.9 at mo123 1/4 before he braked and more or less drifted across the top through Olton, 57; Acocks Green 42 after a short 267r; Tyseley, 35.5; then eased down to drift through Small Heath at 17.2 and Bordesley at only 8.1. We didn't come to a stand and 7029 barked through Moor Street Station and sounded superb again on the 45r through the tunnel into Snow Hill Station. We arrived 11 minutes early at 1835. Control let us out at 1843 and we were back at Warwick Road Platform at 1900, 17 early.

    A day out that matched and exceeded expectation in places. John and I were convinced the day was a genuine one and the Class 47 did nothing when 7029 was in charge of the train. Been a long time since we travelled behind a Castle with a 'proper load'. The day was full of good climbing and excellent high speed running when possible, particularly on the GWML between Swindon and Didcot.

    Many thanks to Vintage Trains - our first encounter since the CBS was formed. 7029 was immaculately turned out and delivered a performance to match, handled expertly by driver Martyn Fake. Not sure who fired where but assume it was shared between Dean Morris and Alastair Meanley who did the usual amazing job keeping the needle not far from the mark all day. Thank you for your efforts gentlemen. We'd also like to thank the drivers of the Class 47 who allowed 7029 to 'do its thing' all day without assistance.

    The stewards were a friendly bunch and stewarding was very light touch. No barking orders; in fact polite requests to man and open the doors when required; 'Please' forming a key part of every request.

    Thanks to Network Rail for letting us out on the Big Railway, and particularly for the excellent paths on the day that gave us non-stop great running apart from on the Didcot North to Banbury section.

    Faith in VT restored, even with a box in the consist, we did a late booking on Saturday's Anniversary Special to do the return run from Cardiff up the GWML via Badminton to Swindon and on to Didcot West; something we haven't been able to do behind steam for many a long year.
     
  17. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Excellent. I will be doing a write up for my column in due course, with your help and with my images . Don
     
  18. AlexS

    AlexS New Member

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    A most interesting write up @1020 Shireman , thank you for taking the time.

    Martyn has been instrumental in getting the operating side of Vintage Trains back up and running following the dark days of the lockdowns and whilst I won't deny I am very fond of a run behind a class 47 I think it's fair to say that if he is at the controls of the train you will get the run you were hoping for, the diesel is simply essential to make the pathing work for these tours on the modern railway with positioning moves etc required and won't be doing any work unless something has gone wrong.

    Very much looking forward to this weekend's trip to Cardiff, I have the genuine honour of being the guard for the journey back from Cardiff to Birmingham and am very much looking forward to seeing what 7029 can do having only had her on the Shakespeare Express thus far - I have been a train guard for some years now but working on board these services is fulfilling some serious childhood dreams!
     
    PaulT, green five, GWR4707 and 4 others like this.
  19. NathanP

    NathanP Member

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    It's good to know from Shireman's report that the gauging issue through Ashchurch has been resolved. Back before Covid, the last few VT trips I was on that went that way all had to crawl through Ashchurch at 10mph. I'm looking forward to this Saturday's trip even more now!
     
  20. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Thanks for the report Shireman!

    Resistance of diesel loco dead-in-tow is a moot point. Some members of RPS have done some modelling, and essentially the rolling resistance appears equivalent to approx 3 coaches at mid range speeds, maybe 2.5 coaches at higher speeds.

    Even accounting for the longer train with 3 coaches, rather than a single loco DIT, I would reckon the rolling resistance of class 47 around 30mph to be worth at least 3x coaches, and of course the class 47 is heavier than 3 x Mk2s, even including the pax.

    Does the 10mph at Warwick affect all steam, or only some?

    Sean
     

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