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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if OVSB had had a chance
    Very light Pacific?
    2' guage leader?

    Or just third rail and 5-AXE and 3-YEO units...
     
  2. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    If so, agreed - well done all round; very good to see.
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not trying to be awkward here, but how then did the old L&B cope with those all too rare situations when traffic exceeded one loco with 5 on?
     
  4. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    0.56 seconds Kibsworthy
    1.17 Dean Steep Bank
    1.34 Caffyns
    2.03 Ranscombe
    2.20 Woolhanger Bridge No 70 (buried)
    2.25 Woody Bay Station
    2.55 Killington Lane
    3.11 Parracombe Head Lane Bridge 63 (buried) over road down into Parracombe
    3.42 Parracombe Embankment (remains of)
    4.13 Rowley Cross - over road down into Parracombe
    4.54 Blackmoor (Gate)
    5.16 Pound Lane Bridge 54 renovated by the Trust
    5.22 Bridge 53 under horsedrawn coach road
    5.30 Projected Wistlandpound temporary terminus
    6.10 North Thorne
    6.34 Hunnacott
    6.45 Narracott Bridge 39
    7.05 Knightacott Bridge 38
    7.10 Southacott Bank
    7.21 Bratton Flemimg Station
    7.52 Lancey Brook Viaduct - site of - Bridge 30
    8.23 Chumhill
    8.36 Bridge 24 under Bratton-Barnstaple road
    8.53 Opposite Loxhore Cross
    9.13 Chelfham Station and Viaduct
    9.43 'Skew' Bridge - Bridge 19
    10.26 Snapper
    11.07 Frankmarsh
    11.49 Pilton Yard
    11.55 Mermaid Cross - Braunton Road at end of High Street
    12.03 Barnstaple Town Station

    I hope that helps.
     
  5. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Many thanks, Michael B
     
  6. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I wouldn't have thought the platform lengths would necessarily matter on most of the intermittent stations, seeing as most people visiting the railway as it expands will most likely want to travel the entire length of the line, much like how most do on the WHR for example. And seeing as new stations will be needed to be built at both the Lynton and Barnstaple ends of the railway when the time comes, they should be able to build a station to handle the longest of trains they envisage having to run.

    So with this in mind, the main issue you'd have to deal with is making the passing loops at the stations longer, which I'm sure there can be ways to do that when needed at some of the intermediate stations. I say some as it would seem to me most likely they'd only really needed passing loops at 2 or 3 locations along the route, so not all the stations have to have passing loops to ensure full length trains can pass.

    And before anyone say 'but what about the platforms' length, they need to be longer!' The solution can already be found on the NYMR, as a good number of their intermediate stations don't have long enough platforms to accommodate a full rake of carriages they typically run, so with that in mind they just make sure to instruct passengers wishing to alight at these stations to sit in the first few carriages behind the engine. It's worked well enough for them over the years, so I see no reason why the L&B could not do the same.
     
  7. MPR

    MPR New Member

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    Was there ever any further news about the stalled advanced steam project mentioned on this site a few years ago?
     
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  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Some big assumptions there.

    I would question the assumption of whole line visits, and therefore also the viability of the NYMR platform length precedent. Given where the L&B runs, once it gets beyond the Wistlandpound extension, I’d anticipate a material desire to do part journeys.

    From experience, the short platforms there are a pain in the backside, especially when joining a busy train. That is just about acceptable with historic structures already in place, but that only (just about) works with walkthrough rolling stock.

    Finally, the suitability of loop plans depends on both the length and frequency of trains. Capacity, measured in passengers per day, can be delivered by running more and/or longer trains.

    Finally, an observation. A significant reason why I’ve yet to travel the WHHR is the constraint imposed by their timetable model. Just because they’ve made it work with few but long trains and a “turn up when we tell you to” timetable doesn’t mean that this would necessarily transfer elsewhere.


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  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Did they ever have to cross two long trains? As opposed to cross a long one and a short one? A long train can cross a short one in a short loop, subject to arriving in the right order (and assuming the rules, or any special instructions, are written to allow it).

    I suspect the interesting question is (1) how many seats do you have in five carriages and (2) can you run profitably on (say) 60% occupancy of those numbers?

    Tom
     
  10. goughball01

    goughball01 New Member

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    I assume you are referring to the Yeo and Exe Project which is very much moving forward although like all things has been effected by Covid over the lase year or two.
    Indeed an update was released only last week from this years Gala:


    https://www.762club.com/news
     
  11. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    Err. Currently the L and B has two steam engines that can work passenger trains and one rake of carriages. It has a short length of running line and plenty of difficulties to overcome to extend further including raising money. I'm confident that it will develop further and hope to ride at least as far as BG before I shuffle off the mortal coil but consider how long the railhead has been at Killington Lane before airily talking of Wistlandpound and beyond. Let alone long trains with big engines needing extended passing loops whilst the pair of Manning Wardles is a fair way off, and a carriage shed is needed to keep those superb vehicles out of the Exmoor weather when not at work.
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed on all points, but this discussion has always considered a range of time horizons.


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  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Well, an over-long train can pass a normal length train provided that the latter is let into the loop first. It's when both trains are over-long that it gets difficult...:)
     
  14. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    Don't the ORR require new platforms to be long enough for the trains using them?
    Pat
     
  15. gwralatea

    gwralatea Member

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    Given I don't think anyone's actually directly answered this (leaving aside the points about crossing) - more carriages and double heading. And in those far off days, if your carriage didn't align with the platform, it didn't actually prevent you boarding or leaving...
     
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  16. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    An average five-coach train in the SR period would have around 218 seats, or 222 if comp 6994 ex 17 was in the train instead of 6993 ex 15. That would include 26 first class. Using 6364/5 ex 5 or 6 instead of a third would add another 12 first at the expense of 24 thirds, perhaps warranted in this day and age. Using 2473/4 ex 3 or 4 reduces the total by 6.
     
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  17. MartinBall

    MartinBall Guest

    "points about crossing" - ooh, I see what you did there :)
     
  18. MPR

    MPR New Member

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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I was wondering that myself. You have to suppose, given the fate of the old line, the answer is "nowhere near often enough". :(

    Looking back through old photos, it appears there was some (presumably) seasonal traffic in straw or hay, which necessitated a bogie open or two (not familiar enough with either to say which) and as the old L&B ran 'mixed' services, I could imagine some 'market day', or seasonal fair generating sufficient traffic to add a couple of carriages to the trains.

    So far as the revived L&B is concerned, the first observation has to be I'm cock-a-hoop there's a revived line for us to enjoy and discuss ..... big difference to a memorable 1960s holiday 'down west', when my long departed grandmother pointed out the course of the lost line she had known in her younger days.

    Second comes the observation that operating Blackmoor to Lynton and a fully reopened line to Barnstaple will present entirely different challenges. Maybe this consideration is a sign of my age, but journeys in compartment stock raise questions of effective bladder range. 20-30mins, no issue. Over 90mins, fully hydrated in hot conditions, 'issue'.

    Third is speculative, but as others have commented, I wonder to what extent traffic will conform to, or defy the 'end to end and back' model we see on most lines? If ENPAs desire for effective P&R provision bears to fruit, straight away that's two, if not three distinct markets. I know Lynton & Lynmouth well enough to (a) realise there's little middle ground locally every time the subject of Clovelly comes up .... and to (b) get out of the way, pronto, when it does!
     
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  20. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    It could be argued perhaps that, in the case of the L&BR, the height of the platforms is such that it would probably make little difference to many passengers whether they got off on one or not :) Equally, there is the thorny question about whether or not the gradient on some places on the L&BR is such that the ORR might deem it too steep for a platform anyway.

    Just some of the many designs issues yet to be determined......
     

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