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Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    plus the class 121 DMU.
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I understood that is currently not serviceable.
     
  3. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    You know I think you’re right.

    It depends what game we are playing. If Swanage were to host a gala next year then I suspect the 121 would be serviceable by then.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Is there a loco roster on the website?

    If not does anyone know what steam loco is running at the weekend

    Many thanks
     
  5. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    If only it did.

    From the railcam, 80078 is in service today. <BJ>
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  6. desperado

    desperado Member

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    The running joke is that BRCW stands for Birmingham Rust and Corrosion Works.
    More seriously, every class 33 owner finds that there is always more rust & corrosion than they had expected. Whenever a 33 is stopped for attention to bodywork, it always takes far longer & far more money than planned. 33111 is no exception, some time it will be stopped for attention to bodywork. Whenever that is, it will inevitably be stopped longer than planned and have more money spent on it than planned.
     
  7. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Given that first generation diesels are approaching 60, a little rust isnt surprising but do BRCW products really fare worse than other builders and if so why?
     
  8. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, after the bodywork, 30012 should last a while doing mainline trips before more work is needed.
    If the Wareham service also gets going next year the 121 will be useful to boost capacity on the 117 or to run off peak services at lower cost than the 117?
     
  9. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Well-Known Member

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    From what I heard about the various Rats, their design just seemed to trap water better.
     
  10. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    I don’t know, but assume so, also for driver training, route learning and replacing a power car in case a fault occurs, or for servicing, so you still have a three set. All guesswork.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  11. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    33108 is being overhauled at Kidderminster and the owner’s blog said: “You’ll see the usual expected levels of BRCW rust & corrosion!”

    https://33pres.com/home-page/bagpipe-blog/

    Patrick


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. 80104

    80104 Member

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    I rather think they have to operate a Wareham service in 2022 because they committed to Dorset (County) Council to run a trial service for 2 years (one of 60 days, one of 90 days) when the new lease for the line was granted in 2014.

    The line resignalling project was officially declared open (completed) in 2015.

    The 60 day service ran in 2017.

    I have always been surprised that they didnt get West Coast (who operated the trial in 2017) to run the 90 day trial in 2018 so that the obligation was fulfilled.

    On the basis of the 2017 results, the cost of the 2018 trial would have been a net loss of C£105K but when considers all the costs that SR have / will incur(red)* to obtain their own licence etc etc I will be very much surprised if the net loss isnt considerably higher than that.

    *Driver medicals
    * Driver DMU training
    *Additional Insurance Premium for mainline operating
    * Consultancy fees with Rail Business Solutions

    It could be argued that some of these are one offs and could be spread over a number of years operating but if the loss sustained in the 2022 trial is high, will SR run the wareham services in future years and / or will Dorset Council be prepared to bridge the financial gap.
     
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  13. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    Could you outline how you estimated this loss please?
     
  14. 80104

    80104 Member

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    SR announced that the 2017 Trial Service had lost £70K.

    I simply multiplied the loss by 1.5 (as 90 is 1.5 times 60).

    Whilst this calculation is crude, there are many variables, nevertheless it is a reasonable estimate of the likely losses if the 90 day service had been run on the same basis as the 60 day service.

    Operating it themselves (with the 117 / 121 DMUs ) SR will not incur the hiring in charges for rolling stock (and drivers) that were incurred in 2017 however there are other costs which will be incurred when SR operate the service for themselves (as outlined above). The two stand out costs to me are the additional insurance premium for operating on the mainline and the consultancy fees charged by RBS for the preparation and submission of the documentation for the operating licence. There may also be fees charged for the risk assessments which had to be submitted for the derogation to operate the Class 117 / 121 DMUs on the mainline.

    Lets not forget that SR have built a servicing depot for the DMUs at Corfe Castle Station though I believe that a grant from a third party (not Dorset Council) funded (part of) this.

    Reinstating services to Wareham has been the goal of SR for many years. A huge amount of effort and money (some SR, some from third parties) has gone into this project. The concern has to be that despite the very best of intentions, the farebox revenue will fall short of the operating costs, and this compounded by the need for ongoing investment in the infrastructure and rolling stock will mean that "Project Wareham" will require very considerable third party financial support if the service is to continue post the trial period.
     
  15. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    Thank you for the explanation.

    Personally I very much hope the 90 day trial produces passenger numbers and experiences that make the service sustainable in future years, even if this does require a small subsidy from government, local government or steam operations.
     
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Why?

    There can hardly be a preserved railway in the land that is generating a surplus from its operations - every penny made (and more) has to go back into renewal of the infrastructure, locos, carriages, buildings, signalling and so on. Running a subsidised public transport service isn't a sensible use of money, to my mind.

    As for the local government - that has been cut to the bone over the last decade or more of austerity, such that there is no spare money there either. So subsidising this transport link means a cut somewhere else. Do you think it should be prioritised if, for example, the cost saving elsewhere meant cutting the opening hours of Swanage Library?

    It's easy to say something should be subsidised. But you should at least be upfront with what you should say should be cut to pay that subsidy. If SR subsidised it, which of their current projects should be cut in order to pay?

    Tom
     
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  17. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Fair comment, but a considerable amount of public money has already gone towards allowing SR trains to run to Wareham. If it turns out that any such service will always run at a loss, should all concerned throw up their hands and put it down to experience or should some source of subsidy be found, in return for reduced congestion on the roads and/or increased visitor numbers to Swanage?
     
  18. 80104

    80104 Member

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    This really delves into the difficulties of subsidising activities:

    1. How much subsidy would be required? If it equates to say £5 per passenger journey does this represent good value for money?(and of course could that sum of money be spent elsewhere giving a better "return" on the investment?for example subsidising Morebus to operate additional Purbeck Breezer services?)

    2. Should Dorset Council - which is funded in part by local council tax payers - be funding an activity which benefits non local council tax payers ie tourists?

    3. What is the trickle down benefit of investment in tourism (increasing visitor numbers to swanage)?

    4. How does one put a value on reducing road congestion and will, in any case, a SR service to Swanage have any discernible effect?
     
  19. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    Unfortunately yes. Think of it as an investment. How would the population of a small coastal town like Swanage manage financially without tourism? <BJ>
     
  20. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Before we start getting too gloomy about the potential loss incurred by running to Wareham. let's give the Swanage Railway a chance to see how the 90-day trial works out. A lot of preparation has gone into these services, including a lot of one-off infrastructure jobs (DMUs, maintenance facility at Corfe Castle, upgrading of five Mk1 coaches, etc) but also a lot of research into the viability of these services. Yes, we all know that the West Coast operated trains in 2017 ran at a loss, but who knows, once the service is established, it may prove popular enough to cover its costs. After all, look at the Borders Railway in Scotland where passenger numbers have exceeded expectations quite considerably. I'm very aware that we are talking about a very different part of the world to Dorset and I'm not saying that the Swanage-Wareham services will do much better than expected; I'm merely saying that they might. As the old adage goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
     

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