Does steam and diesel have a future?

I think you under-estimate the appeal of ancient electric stuff. A 100 year old tram is a completely different experience to anything in everyday life. Even a Mk1 based EMU is utterly alien to the modern traveller-I can just remember my Dad taking a child me round the southern region to catch some of the last days of such stock. Growling gears, the clunking, banging, flashing and notchiness of old EP gear...it's a definite historical experience, and I think that is what people mostly want. I've also had the joy of a cab ride in Sarah Siddons, a whole world away from a modern EMU that trundles off with barely a whine.
The first railway that cracks running old electric stuff may find it has an unlikely success. Especially if they push the green selling point.

 

All is not yet lost....
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/1...bill-will-not-apply-to-steam-locomotives.html

 

People keep linking to that article. But it doesn’t get round two significant issues:

1. Supply chain (it’s no good being allowed to use coal if no-one is importing stuff suitable for our engines because the domestic supply chain has disappeared)
2. Public perception: no visitors = no trains

It’s welcome to have that protection, but it is far from the case of “environment bill doesn’t apply, job done”.

Tom

 

If you think the cost of going zero carbon (FWIW its net not gross) is expensive, the cost of not going is going to blow your mind, a fair few of our best known railways won't need coal unless they are planning to run a steamer service.

 

Could this mean then less running days for heritage lines for steam and diesel loco,s and the years roll on, and the supply chain of coal (Imported) after the last coals dwindle at frons y fran open cast site and all that will be needing coal in the U.K. is the Last few steel mills in Scunthorpe and Port Talbot, (thats if they dont convert to hydrogen power in the next few decades) Radlcliffe on soar power station maybe Burton west in Lincs the last few off gridders in the countryside who use wood coke or anthracite on their fires and the Heritage lines and finding a overseas country such as Russia or Poland (which some heritage lines are already doing) to get our coal supply from so long as we dont get out priced for importing it. and also will Joe public still be attracted to heritage lines in the U.K. despite alot of folks attitudes and point of view are changing on using Coal gas and petrol and diesel and that the shift to renewables has to happen quicker? I just hope in 10+ years time that us rail enthusiasts and people and families interested in the transport of yesteryear can still view our fascinating steam and diesel loco,s running and that BIO coal BIO diesel or L.P.G. liquid fuels can help keep us going if it does become difficult to find a supply of coal as the years roll by
Davo 56F

 

Heritage railways are already widely using foreign coal: Ffos y Fran is far from having any kind of monopoly on supply of the heritage market.

The supply chain issue, AIUI, is that all heritage usage is about 30,000 tons per year; which essentially piggy-backs on a domestic market of about 150,000 tons of lump coal. When that domestic market disappears, will producers want to carry on producing lump coal, with all the attendant requirement to maintain suitable machinery, just for a very small market? By contrast, several million tons of coal is still used in this country for steel and other industrial uses, but it is crushed coal and not suitable for heritage use.

Tom

 

Has anyone come across any of 'em within human memory and lived?

 

For diesels, presume some sort of bio fuel, some haulage firms run trucks on it?

steam is, theoretically, easier. Basically you boil water using a fire, so, technically anything which burns would do. Biomass?

 

It might be better to burn hydrogen as bio fuels all produce CO2 - which is seen to be the big problem. Obviously there are various ways of burning the Hydrogen in a conventional boiler - accepting the gross inefficiencies of such a process!! The pressurised hydrogen tanks can be fitted in tenders - or the rotating coal bunkers (cylindrical tank...) of new build Garretts......

 

Electric fired steam! The Swiss railways actually did this.

 

With talk of miniaturised throium salt nuclear reactors ........ Naah. Best not go there!

 

Would burning hydrogen actually work in a conventional steam locomotive? I'm no expert on hydrogen combustion but I would imagine that a high temperature stable flame would require a fan driven air supply which is mixed with the hydrogen prior to ignition, as in (say) an industrial boiler gas burner and not an external air supply through the ashpan. I'm also thinking in terms of the blast created by the exhaust steam as it is quite fierce and I can't see a stable flame being had under these circumstances. Yes, you could design a steam loco to run on hydrogen but converting one of our heritage locos to run on it without changing so much of it would be a real challenge.

 

He must've been pulling your leg ..... a real one would've cut it off, roasted and eaten it!

 

I may, but suspect not. And that’s from someone who grew up on the Southern who used CEP, BEP, CIG and VEP stock routinely, and carries no regrets about missing the 375s.


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Those are modern units; you need to go back to the 4-CORs and 4-SUBs for some real "character"!

 

I remember their 'character' all too well, thank you. Living in an EPB area, my 4SUB experiences came on trips to my aunt's house in Addlestone and I knew both 2BIL and 4COR when both were working out their last days in Sussex. Never had the chance to ride a 5BEL ..... dammit!

OK, the seating was better than the torture devices which comes with much modern kit, but the ride (let's be honest, it was never that great) became truly appalling towards the end.

 

Before my time, though I did manage a few miles in the SUB and BIL while they were on the mainline.


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I did several times and I think the ride was worse than a 4-COR. Of course, all the ex SR units were well worn by the late 60s. But never mind missing the Belle, rejuvenated it will be running again soon.