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Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    Really?
    Has the SR obtained the operating licence from the OR&R then?
    When this actually does happen, and I am sure the Swanage Railway will issue a press statement, There is also the little issue of staff training before a passenger service can start.
     
  2. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    I’ve no idea. Again, no idea, but you’d expect it probably should happen this year, and if it stops mid September then it’ll probably start around the middle of May. Presumably there’s a tremendous amount going on behind the scenes?
     
  3. 80104

    80104 Member

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    2022 is five years after the first trial year in 2017. SR had originally suggested that the first trial would take place in 2015, the suggestion being reinforced by the official opening of the signalling system by Claire Perry MP Parliamentary Under Secretary at the Department for Transport and a special journey down the branch with invited guests in February? 2015. The first trial year was put back in 2015 and 2016 by significant problems with the refurbishment of the DMUs and only happened in 2017 because suitable rolling stock was hired in, the cost of which contributed to a financial loss on the trial. 2018 and 2019 passed whilst the refurbishment of the DMUs continued and afaik work on the licence application was undertaken. 2020 and 2021 have been effected by the COVID outbreak and all its implications.

    Whilst undoubtedly a great deal of work has and is going on in the background (as indicated by the training runs, the building of the DMU servicing facility at Corfe Castle Station) one has to wonder when the trial will take place and then what? Will it simply prove that to operate even a tourist service will require considerable financial support from Dorset Council? What would it take to operate a year round service which would provide the residents of Swanage and Corfe Castle with the level of service that BR used to provide in the late 1960s and early 1970s prior to the closure of the branch?
     
  4. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    That's quite easy to answer:
    1. Paid Staff dedicated to the service.
    2. Backup rolling stock.
    3. Acceptance that the SR would no longer be a heritage railway, and that any running of steam would have to fit in around the scheduled service.
    4. Very Deep Pockets

    Not really sure you want to go there.
     
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  5. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    You may be surprised at the number of people who would accept all 4 of your scared cows. Just to have a regular service to/ from Wareham.
     
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  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Really?
    Those with bus passes would probably not as it would cost money (and that is the greatest number of bus passengers in the daytime outside of the summer peak).
    Would it be an hourly service like to 40 or half hourly like the 50 (in the summer to Bournemouth)? As has been said many times Wareham station is only any good if you are going on by train, no good for the town. I remain to be convinced we will ever get back the two train an hour service to Weymouth other than Saturdays and maybe high summer, disregarding the fact the SWR service is so unreliable anyway. So I do not see the benefit to the commuting public, no idea how big this sector is, but whenever I see early morning buses from Swanage there are very few passengers.
    Not sure the shopkeepers and hospitality side would view an SWR service as bringing in more trade to the town than a mainly steam heritage line either.
    Then of course all the noise complaints about trains running early morning and evening past peoples houses.
     
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  7. 80104

    80104 Member

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    The question must surely be whether Dorset Council would be happy for it to be used for only a limited number of days per year or insist upon and financially support a daily service with a wider range of timings than the tourist service envisaged by SR.
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    All the time bus passes remain free for the over 65s (and probably even if that wasn't true) an all-year-round service is pie-in-the-sky.

    Tom
     
  9. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    Not my sacred cows. Just telling it like it is.
    Though I feel it would be unfair that the efforts of preservationists over the past half a century would have to be stolen from them to satisfy the entitlement of those wanting to put in place a 21st century commuter service.

    I fully appreciate that the initial aim of the SR was to restore a service, but that was the 70s, and the realities of running a service then Vs now is very different.
     
  10. 80104

    80104 Member

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    One would envisage that the Lease Agreement between Dorset Council (DCC as was) and Swanage Railway Trust agreed and signed in 2014(?) would lay down any minimum service level to be provided by SRC along the branch line and the process to be followed in the event that either party wished to vary the agreement or failed to meet their obligations (for whatever reason).

    DC appear to have been very supportive of SRT/C and it is difficult to comprehend that they would wish to jeopardise the relationship or put at risk the achievements of the past 50 years. However having said that establishing a year round service over the branch would be a highly visible (and comparatively low cost*) enhancement to public transport provision in the Isle of Purbeck.

    *Low Cost when one considers the capital works have already been funded and taken place, the DMUs have been refurbished and the servicing depot built at Corfe Castle. The amount of revenue support required needs to be tested by operating a full trial service over an extended period of time.
     
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  11. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    Indeed there is!
    The main objective is to provide a feeder service from/to Wareham to connect into the steam service. or at least that's how I understand it.
     
  12. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. It often seems to be forgotten on this forum, but £3M of public money went into reconnecting and signalling the Swanage branch to the mainline. So the level of service provided isn’t entirely the SR’s decision.

    In fact I believe there is a clause in the agreement with DCC that says if the SR doesn’t provide the service, they have to allow another operator access to the line to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  13. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    That is not to say that there is another operator out there who wants to do so.

    Peter
     
  14. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    True, but there is an operator out there who has done before. Although obviously SWR won’t be around for much longer with the coming of GBR.
     
  15. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Indeed there was, and I took the opertunity to sample their service - Sherborne to Corfe Castle via reversals at Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Pen Mill, Weymouth and Wareham. But I don't see any evidence that they are eager to repeat the exercise in any shape or form.
     
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  16. 80104

    80104 Member

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    I think it would be fair to say that the Summer Saturday Only Service was something of a frolic driven by a (then) senior manager on the basis that as long as it covered its DOCs then the exercise was worthwhile.

    Surely though that once GBR is in existence the DoT, at the urging of Dorset Council, may simply instruct the rail operator to provide a service along the branch. Obviously there would have to be agreement as to times, fares, revenue support etc etc but the point is though that GBR would not be in a position to refuse if it was Govt policy that a service operated along the branch.

    IMHO SR should be thinking how an arrangement whereby GBR operated a core wareham - swanage service say 7 times a day at 2 hourly intervals and SR operated the variable frequency steam service between norden - swanage 230+ days a year could work. Such a service by GBR may not necessarily detract from the heritage service but could provide an income stream to enable SR to fund all its desire projects eg. water tower, undercover stabling for all carriages.
     
  17. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    £3m might sound a lot of money, but put into the perspective of the materials and labour cost over the past half a century, it's really small change.

    Do you have access to the formal signed agreement in order to reference this? I don't - Not that I don't believe you, but it would be good to see where it is formalised. Are these agreements held online at the DCC portal ?
     
  18. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have access to the agreement, although I’ve heard from several sources this is the case. Yes it would be interesting to see the finer details.

    I’d argue that £3M isn’t small change to the general public. If DCC have put £3M of taxpayers money into this project, and the services fail to materialise, there would be uproar.
     
  19. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    The DoT is now the proxy of the treasury. If you read some of the posts by respected journalists on wnxx the treasury is looking to severely reduce the costs of running trains and seems keen on a service akin to the covid reduced timetables. I would expect little DoT enthusiasm or Dorset Council (struggling like every other one, but still able to pay their top folks mega salaries) looking to chuck more money into a project like this post Covid.
     
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  20. 80104

    80104 Member

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    I would imagine that that agreement is commercially confidential and therefore not in the public domain but I too have heard that if SR does not operate the trial service then it runs a risk of DC asking another operator to run a trial service.

    The more I think about this though the more I believe that SR has either to operate a year round service or far more likely accept that another operator will do so even if this is financially supported by DC or others. In some respects the concept of a trial may be a red herring - just what is the trial seeking to "trial" that is not known or could be established by other means?

    The reason I say why someone will be operating a year round service is very simple. National Transport Policy is to encourage modal shift to public transport on the basis (expressed simply)that it reduces emissions, reduces congestion and is inclusive. The Swanage branch line is extant: ie it already exists and services to / from the mainline at Wareham could be introduced very quickly indeed. I am sure many if not all local councils facing the challenge of the national transport policy a) would give their eye teeth to have such a turn key asset giving a highly visible "quick win" at their disposal b) must be incredulous that such an asset is not being used already especially bearing in mind it is seven years since the signalling system was commissioned.

    Whilst post covid there may be reluctance on the part of the treasury to continue to support the rail industry to the same extent, supporting services along the branch line would be a de minimis cost in the overall scheme of things and meet the national transport policy.
     
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