Electrification of the Settle and Carlisle

Is Leeds-Manchester being electrified ? (as part of this Manchester curve and Liverpool - Manchester electrification ? - I don't know but thought it was ?)

 

Unless I've misunderstood this from Network Rail:-
Funding to electrify the North Transpennine route was announced in November 2011.

Work has started to modify bridges between Manchester Victoria and Guide Bridge to Stalybridge, which will be fully electrified by December 2016.

East of Stalybridge, we're assessing the bridges and tunnels between Manchester, Leeds and Colton Junction on the East Coast Main Line to understand which structures need to be modified for electrification. The outcome of this work will be discussed with local authorities and stakeholders over the coming months.

A fully electrified route will be provided between Manchester, Leeds and York by December 2018, linking up with the electrified lines at Leeds and York.

 

O/T I know , but the East-West Rail link seems another route that just makes sense- the current requirement to go via St Pancras from Bedford to get to either Oxford or Cambridge is a poor option

Jon

 

It'll be an improvement with Crossrail (I dint say perfect), but Oxford-Reading-Liverpool St - Cambridge will be an option..
but with GWML electrification wouldnt the possibility exist to do through services faster speeds either side of the capital and offer a direct service between the two ?

 

That is indeed correct, electrification between Manchester and York/Selby should get underway in early 2016 for completion by late 2018.

The full scope is set out on page 109 of the latest CP5 Enhancements Delivery Plan (.pdf)

Crossrail wouldn't be suited to long distance services nor would it be practical to share the tunnel under London but reopening/upgrading and electrifying the western section of East West Rail between Oxford, Bletchley and Bedford has already got the go ahead and they are looking at the best route to connect through to Cambridge.

Chris

 

Why ?

Why ?

It is being built with some quite long distances in mind Reading to Shenfield is 80 miles...

I'm not convinced by demand between Oxford and Cambridge is enough to warrant that kind of line ?
I remember that student airline that flew between Oxford and Cambridge.. had plans to be a 30 minute or so air bridge of all that demand...
how long did it last.. 1 week...
How many passengers did it leave stranded...thousands, hundreds, tens... er 13.

to quote it's operator
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/feb/02/theairlineindustry.travelnews

Hundreds every week ?.... surely to justify this kind of investment we should be looking at thousands every day ? not a hundred a week...
If the service was hourly each way, 12 hours a day.. thats 168 trains... or 0.6 passengers per train ????

Surely there's a better way of spending £600m+ on the whole project, which ultimately only adds 6 miles of track, and renovates a bunch of older / lesser used lines ?

 

Few people, if any, would actually use an all-stations Crossrail service over that kind of distance and it's not being built with that in mind; it's primary role is relieving Tube capacity in Central London and increasing inner-suburban capacity on the GWML and GEML - this means 90mph metro-style trains with lots of wide doors, plenty of standing room and at least some longitudinal seating to maximise capacity and minimise time spent in stations.

Such rolling stock would be unsuitable for long distance journeys nor could other designs share the tunnel under Central London - to maximise capacity that will operate like a modern tube line with every train identical and automatically operated with platform edge doors aligned with those on the trains.

It's so much more than that - connecting the Great Western, West Coast, Chiltern and Midland Mainlines opens up massive opportunities for freight and local/cross country passenger services between Oxford, Bicester, Milton Keynes, Aylesbury and perhaps beyond to High Wycombe, Bristol, Reading etc.

You can get an idea of the potential from page 4 and 5 of this NR presentation to local councillors - these show the 'core' specification initially proposed and the 'enhanced' spec being considered.

Chris

 

Interesting that the OP appears not to have returned since starting this thread.

 

I think the rabble are all to busy down in west somerset, and its a long way to carry your pitchfork.
No best to keep the rabble where they can use there pitchforks to best advantage

cheers
colin

 

When are Bibbys of Ingleton going to electrify their replacement bus fleet? One thing is certain, as long as there are railways, you’ll never be short of work - as a bus driver!

 

The OP is no longer with us, which might explain why he never returned.

 

@simon’s post that you just replied to is 7 years old.

 

What about 4 rails? 2,000 volts - 2 kv- should be quite possible on the basis that when the Southern 3rd rail had just been switched in to a substation the voltage transitorily became 1,000 volts and everything took this fine, then have one rail positive+ 1,000 volts with the other negative - 1,000 volts so 2,000 volts between them.

Same principle as between the phases of 3 phase. Just like between the 3rd & 4th rails on the underground. A lot of heavy haul electrification has been put in at 1,500 - 3,000 volts DC, whether AC pick up is possible from a third rail I’m not sure..

Apart from open countryside by the Pennines - which could perfectly well have masts like over Shap on the Lancaster and Carlisle - through Bath should not have the heavy portal frames with clumsy detail which are now from Cardiff to Paddington despite particular landscapes like along the Thames and through the Vale of the White Horse.

 

Decidedly unlikely. Even if the idea of a major extension to third rail electrification were contemplated, the requirement for another bespoke on train electric collection system would be a showstopper.

On a pedantic point, SR electrification is 750v DC, and London Underground 4th rail slightly lower voltage. The only higher voltage DC systems were the 1200v side contact 3rd rail on the Bury branch, and the few (notably Woodhead and GE) 1500v overhead systems.

I suspect 2000v DC at track level would have caused kittens even in earlier, less H&S conscious, days.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

The cost of global warming is far greater than the cost of electrification, besides these companies would not make this large investment in diesels if there was a rolling program of putting up more wires instead of making everything so expensive.

 

You cannot pause such a large project: you either carry on or cancel it and write off the huge costs already spent, there is no in-between.

 

If we're resuscitating this discussion, I'd note that investment is shifting away from diesels, and that much of that investment is now 10-20 years old (the class 66s are up to 24 years old now).