The Challenges of the 2022 Heritage Season

Giving something of a twist to the veg/cooking oil, angle. You could have the Severn Valley "sponsored" by KFC, Bluebell by McDonalds, The NYMR by Burger King....... I know don't worry I've my hat and coat ready.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea.

Go for diesel running days & get the whiff of takeout......

 

Maybe not quite as silly as it may sound at first looking. Pop up fast food could be a way of attraction g new people to the railways. However good the catering at a railway there is a wide market for quick/take away catering amongst the general public.

 

back to lard!!

 

I wasn't really there, but my understanding was that the heritage movement was much more of a cottage industry at the time, and hadn't developed to the point where it was sustaining operations of the scale of the larger ones.

 

Being serious McDonalds are advertising that they're already refining their used cooking oil. Turning it into "Biodiesel" and using it in the trucks......

 

Using bio fuels for steam locomotives is something I’ve been working on for over twenty years. In due coarse further examples will be come reality. I never thought that the events of recent times would happen and I hope they are resolved soon and the suffering stops. The situation now is about meeting the problems head on to survive.

 

I used to run my old 200tdi Discovery on a 70:30 veg oil to Diesel mix in summer and 50:50 in winter, and aside from requiring slightly more regular fuel filter changes it was fine for the 18 months and 15k or so miles I had it.

I used both fresh and used- I was able to buy used, filtered from a place on the Liverpool Docks when I was a student.

I don't know an awful lot about rail diesel engines, but I imagine they must be quite tolerant of differing grades of fuel being relatively old technology.

For the volumes that get used- Im sure that a filtration system would be both cost effective and relatively easy to set up?

As an aside, you do get some chippy odour, I had one particular batch from the supplier in Liverpool that had apparently come from Birds Eye, and the did smell like fish and chips when it was ticking over hot.

Chris

 

As an addition it could I suppose be used to fire a steam loco as well as diesel.......

 

Frying Scotsman ?

Jon

 

One of my brothers did until the fuel pump went phut

I believe that there are issues over fuel pump lubrication, some are oil lubricated so should be OK, others are fuel lubricated where you can run into problems with bio diesel/kerosene/whatever

 

I do not know the technicalities but I understand Price Charles got DBC to run the two Royal 67's on bio when on the Royal Train, but DBC use regular stuff the rest of the time for them because, I think the article said (happy to be proved wrong), they would get a better engine life using regular diesel.

 

Just of curiosity, can I ask you Nigel, how is it about the smell from the excaust to a oil fired steam locomotive? Have heard some rumours that it stench and were NOT popular by passenger.

Knut

 

Yes biocoal is soon to become a reality I'd say, I know recently the keighley & worth valley railway trialled it with 78022.

Anybody know how it got on performance wise, word on the grape vine is it did pretty well. Unsure what the cost is compared to regular coal but hopefully cheaper & I'd imagine not as bad emission wise.

 

The smell is different. I always felt hungry when working with soya oils. Maybe it was just not was immediately expected.

 

I have not delt with the recent solid fuels so it’s wrong to directly comment on these. Two comments from the past. We burned brickets during the coal strike. Huge clinkers and much char when worked hard. Steam was good but that was Lady Windsor slack.
I was asked to test paper pellets that was a disaster.
What ever fuel it is it has to have the right fire box and the right combustion technology to get the best out of the fuel. That implies some of our engines will like a fuel when others cannot cope. The draughting has a lot to do with it also. Additionally anything from improved piston ring steam tightness to good water treatment thus good heat transfer makes a huge difference. High levels of insulation help remove the radiant heat loss of boilers. Every little bit helps in the end.

 

Some decades ago [probably during the mid-80's NUM strike] the Swanage Railway could get only supplies of Polish ovoid briquettes - each one stamped 'KOAL' just to ensure one knew what it was I presume. It burnt very hot and caused damage on locos which did not have widely spaced firebars so a good supply of primary air was essential. Lots of clinker and smokebox char was the order of the day, on nearly all engines, and disposal was not a fun job! Even using limestone 'gravel' on the bars, to 'attract' clinker, did not save them from damage. Never did find out what they used to bind their coal dust into ovoids.
Glad I'm retired from the footplate in these troublesome days.

 

I understand the figures talked about by CPL for their products are, they have a smokeless ovoid with 5% biomass for £255/t direct from their depot at Immingham in 20 or 29t loads, transport extra. Their "Ecoal 50" product (50% biomass) is loose at £394/t from Immingham, or prepacked at £540/t delivered. I don't know what the loose quantity in lorry load volumes of Ffos-Y-Fran was charged at, but prepacked you were looking at about £320/t delivered last summer, rising to £380 to 390/t delivered at the start of this year (1t quantity). On that basis the Ecoal 50 is looking to be about 42% more expensive than the Welsh we have had available, for a product that based on the reports I've heard so far is not as good as the Welsh (consumption higher, clinkering higher etc) ...although this was in a road steam setting working hard on the road, not rail based, and it's possible CPL charge more of a premium for packing/delivery than Ffos-Y-Fran, so rail customers taking loose quantities by the lorry may find it cheaper?

Hargreaves are the ones who are producing a 100% coal ovoid product (Trevithick Welsh Steam Ovoids) from bonded crushed fines from Aberpergym. I understand Vale of Rheidol have trialed this and found it similar to Ffos y Fran in many regards - but consumption was higher (about 20% more) and it took more effort to get alight, even so they were fairly happy with it. I don't know a price for loose lorry load quantities, but prepacked you're looking at £432/t delivered - so this time about 14% more expensive than the Ffos-Y-Fran, but a whole heap cheaper than the Ecoal 50.


[edit: Of courser the fact CPL currently target their Ecoal 50 product to the domestic market who generally buy a few bags at a time and happily pay the associated premium for such small quantities may explain why overall the cost is so much higher - simply because the existing market will happily pay that much]

 

Many thanks for your reply Nigel.