If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,490
    Likes Received:
    23,720
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You may want to read Modern Railways, and look at the reports there, which include some of the key comparative data around the performance of different train types.

    From the outside I hesitate to comment on the specifics of why VivaRail's products have failed to set the world alight, though I confess to always having had some scepticism about a project to take 40 year old District Line DC electric trains and fit them with various forms of power never envisaged for them when they were built. However, there is some difference between adapting an already well proven design (as was the case with the 66s) and a small startup applying innovative ideas.

    As for your wider question about heritage railways' business models, I suggest that most heritage railways are always considering and tuning those models. Sadly, however, I observe that they find success in serving a leisure market rather than routine scheduled services.
     
    oliversbest and Bluenosejohn like this.
  2. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    337
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    71B ex 71A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I am at a loss to understand why on earth after two years plus, getting the class 117 & 121 units up to speed for the Wareham service and at least there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel , would you want to suddenly ditch them and replace with recycled underground stock?
    1. Would they fit in our platforms or indeed Wareham? All of the platforms had to be altered in the IOW for the 484's.
    2. At this late stage, Do you think that the HMRI/OR&R (and Network Rail) would approve their operation?
    3. Who would operate them and where would they be stored?
    4. In the event of failure, how would they be rescued especially on the Worgret-Wareham section?

    Yet another "bright and wonderful idea" that has not been thought through!
     
  3. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,077
    Likes Received:
    4,889
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes but these are what most would call modern stock compared to anything on a heritage line. Not sure any first generation diesels remain.
    Remember pre Covid some stock was being mothballed because new stock had cheaper lease rates. Although they are going/have gone to South Eastern SWR were replacing units that were only a couple of years old.
     
  4. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    1 - Yes they would fit. Platforms on the IOW only had to be altered to bring them up to a more normal level, having previously been used for tube stock. Platforms haven’t needed to be adjusted for class 230s in use elsewhere on the mainland.

    2 - They have been approved for use elsewhere on the network. Have the 117 and 121 even received approval for use on the mainline yet?

    3 - Operated by the Swanage Railway and based at Corfe, like the bubble car and 117 are?

    4 - Class 33 with translator wagon? Rescued by the other unit if they had two units?

    Not really any particular obstacles here to prevent the use of 230s on the Swanage Wareham services. The only obstacle is money. Lots of money already spent on the 117 and bubble car, and it would cost a vast amount more money to buy a couple of 230s. That’s the reason it will never happen.
     
    gwalkeriow and 35B like this.
  5. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    337
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    71B ex 71A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the class 484's in the IOW replace class 483, 1938 tube stock which in turn had replaced earlier class 485/486 stock?
    So the track had to be raised through all platforms between Ryde Pier head and Shanklin in 1967.
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sounds about right. Additionally, the floor in Ryde tunnel was raised in 1967, to alleviate perennial flooding .... to some extent.
     
  7. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Correct, which is why the platform height had to be adjusted back to a more normal level on introduction of the 484s.
     
  8. Morris_mad

    Morris_mad New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    167
    Gender:
    Male
    If you wanted an alternative to the 117/121 DMUs to run to Wareham, a 33 plus TC or BR Mk1s would make the most sense. 33s are still used across the network, as are Mk1s and a 4TC. It’s also in keeping with the general presentation of the branch.

    However, I don’t think it’s been suggested that there’s a problem with the DMUs, nor is this the source of the delay this year. So what’s the need for alternative rolling stock?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    MellishR likes this.
  9. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    121
    My original suggestions was that the dormant line from Worgret to Norden be used to trial a battery version of these units. Environmentally end economically could be a winner. However with Wareham receding on the horizon for probably several years hence and the branch continuing to lie fallow there is obviously not much urgency!!. Meanwhile get ye to the SR General Discussion and put forth your views on moving the Birds Nest Buffet. What are they thinking of??
     
  10. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    2,113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Carriage & Wagon
    Location:
    Sheringham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The platforms on the island were a bit of a mix on the IOW. Some stations (such as Branding) had unaltered platforms that were higher than the doors on the tube stock - as a passenger you stepped down into the train on entering which was a novelty! The new 484's are higher than the tube stock and they have taken the (long overdue sone would say) opportunity of the major upgrade to get all the platforms at the correct height to allow full disabled access going forward .

    Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk
     
  11. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    84
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Honiton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This would be less money to make new platform at the junction and make people walk than all money waste trying to get trains going now. And having to move platforms up and down instead is unsensible I’m sure the managers will be getting fed up of soon
     
  12. Standard by 4

    Standard by 4 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    33
    Any news on the Wareham foot crossing? I presume any access to the Wareham sidings is still not possible till this is closed? Or are we waiting for 2038 when the lease comes to an end for the crossing?
     
  13. Rumpole

    Rumpole Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    761
    Occupation:
    Tea-Maker
    Location:
    34105
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It wouldn't.
     
  14. Woof Mk2

    Woof Mk2 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    218
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Padstow
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No official news at all
     
  15. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looks like ongoing discussions. Ramps added to the footbridge seems to be the way forward, if the design meets the council approval.
    An alternative is lifts, but seems to expensive for Network Rail?.
    https://www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/ro...mprovements/wareham-pedestrian-level-crossing
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,077
    Likes Received:
    4,889
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am not sure what design would meet council approval as to make the ramp shallow enough it will need to be a vast structure like most modern footbridges. From memory and as your link says the planning permission was denied for amongst other reasons that the ramps were too steep.
    Have a look at images on this link in the denied planning application. Click on plans, and images 8 on are most relevant if you are already familiar with the existing bridge. Normally you can read the "neighbours comments" of which I have never seen so many, but not on this application it seems. The site has been "upgraded" recently (which like most I.T. means made less usable, so maybe as this is a 2015 application the functionality does not exist.
    https://planning.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/plandisp.aspx?recno=280576
     
  17. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    One rather gets the impression that the local residents, local councillors, wareham town council et al will not accept any alternative to the current pedestrian crossing as any alternative is (perceived to be) inferior in terms of gradient, distance and thus time taken to cross.
     
  18. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A lift is out as all other lifts on stations are used by passengers only, not the public, so if there is a problem there would not be anyone on site to sort.
    An automatically signalled pedestrian crossing is out for the same reason.
    The manned crossing is costing the council too much.
    Looks like from a search, the council are proposing a new public pedestrian footbridge alongside the A351 roadbridge which "will help improve accessibility to the station when the level crossing is not in use" but not a full solution
    https://www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/ro...highway-improvements/wareham-footway-cycleway
    (edit) Project Wareham can proceed in 2023, and potentially any other Swanage bound trains in 2022, without the siding, if the level crossing is still there , as in 2017, but I think it will add flexibility
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  19. 80104

    80104 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    451
    Location:
    a small town in germany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Council Tax Payers Money! Councils have no money of their own only that which has been provided to them by taxpayers.
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  20. Morris_mad

    Morris_mad New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    167
    Gender:
    Male

Share This Page