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North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by The Black Hat, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Sidmouth4me

    Sidmouth4me Member

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    I’m not sure how the website could be made clearer for Joe Public given the railway’s desire for passengers to reserve their seats in advance on the Seaside Specials, given the previous problems passengers were facing (standing on packed trains etc), whilst not requiring them to book seats on the Moorlander Explorer except to book their outbound service (again, to control numbers so they don’t have to stand).

    I’m not sure of a better solution….
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  2. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    I always took it to be Bram Stoker and Dracula that had the Whitby connections. As after all the eternal Count arrives in the UK at Whitby..........
     
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  3. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin Member

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    Do you have a source for this? I was aware of the Bram Stoker/ Dracula connection with Whitby but had not heard of the Frankenstein link
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    You are of course correct. I seem to be losing the plot ..... coffee needed ..... new! :Depressed:
     
  5. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    As a lifelong enthusiast I would disagree. For the majority of customers Whitby is an attractive destination (also Goathland to a lesser extent). Grosmont is not, unless you are an enthusiast. We holiday in the NYM area, and will usually splash out on a Pickering-Whitby return for a day out. If I can swing a visit to Grosmont we’ll drive, then maybe take a ride up the bank to Goathland, have a nosey round, then walk back down the old line, via a refreshment stop in Beckhole . It’s Joe Public who pay the piper these days, not us.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  6. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Can but agree with Sheff. It's the public who pick up most of the bill for operating the Moors or any other preserved line up and down the land. What's more quite a number can be/are quite discerning and love it when you give them background information, especially with the Teaks, based on the Moors. Many are surprised it doesn't cost extra to ride in them or that they're 3rd class rather than 1st.....! The same can be said about the costs involved in their restoration or where we get some of the parts......eBay!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  7. Sidmouth4me

    Sidmouth4me Member

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    Yes totally agree with 2392 and Sheff that it is Joe Public who pay the piper. I suspect most visiting NYMR simply want a trip behind a steam engine to the seaside; most couldn’t care less what type of steam engine it is and that what the carriages are like as long as they are clean, have working toilets, run to timetable and hopefully have refreshments available. But once on the railway they can then start to learn of and appreciate the heritage of the railway around them, for which their visit helps to restore and preserve.
     
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  8. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    It's interesting that 2392 "liked" this, considering it is more or less diametrically opposed to his preceding post! For my part I firmly believe that going forward the NYMR (and indeed other railways) need to take a long, hard look at what attracts visitors to them and then work out ways of doing more or the same t minimal extra cost. There's a lot that could be done, some things cheaply and there are others that will require investment, but the biggest risk to the railway, whether as a charity or a business, is the complacency summed up in this post. It is ironic that I believe it has been written by the individual who, many years ago, wrote a series in "Moors Line" suggesting an extensive series of ideas for improvements!
     
  9. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    It may surprise some that I agree with the suggestion that you look at what attracts visitors and then examine doing more of the same as long as it increases the surplus you can generate. The problem for those who advocate a change of direction is that the vast majority of our paying passengers want to travel to Whitby. I haven't checked the exact figure before posting but I believe the last survey suggested the figure was around 85%. Consequently 61264's post is a compelling argument for focussing on what our visitors are willing to pay for ......a steam train journey to Whitby.
    I'm not surprised 2392 liked Sidmouth4me's post because it's an accurate description of the product the majority of our visitors want to buy even though, as enthusiasts, we might wish that it was something different.
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Unfortunately things are not as simple and cut as you make out. I had a tirade of abuse today when i asked if someone could cover a vacant turn. The essence of this was that the footplate turns are too long at 11.5 hours for 60 miles and they should be shortened. If this is done and I halve the day to about seven hours for 36 miles, I will get abuse saying the turns are now too short for those who have to travel for their day on the footplate. The only way the twin arguments can be solved is by abandoning Whitby, after which life becomes so much much simpler with people doing 72 miles in about 9 hours.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the NYMR is to survive, the wants of the volunteers have to be paramount. If that means abandoning Whitby (something I personally don't want to do), then so be it. Either that or Northern abandon their T/T in favour of the NYMR
     
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  11. Brunswick Green 2

    Brunswick Green 2 Member

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    Has 31128 been brought in as a Whitby loco to cover for D7628 whilst under repair? Ta in advance for any information.
     
  12. ykin01

    ykin01 Member

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    Yes, believe a comment I saw saying it's on hire for 6 weeks. I believe it will then be replaced by something else to be announced at a later date (saw rumours on Facebook of it being a 37).
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Which wants? Mileage? Hours? Something else?

    I disagree with much that @Lineisclear says about how control of a charity should be balanced, but do agree with him that running a charity based on the wishes of volunteers raises serious questions about the public benefit of the charity. However, if delivering the charity's plans means that the volunteers on whom it relies are simply not going to be willing to show up, then that suggests a fundamental flaw in those plans.
     
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  14. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    It’s good to know we agree on something! I’d also agree with Steve that volunteering has to be enjoyable although driving a locomotive for any distance is a privilege denied to most. Turns may not be ideal but at least the opportunity is there. The suggested alternative of abandoning Whitby, to make them more attractive, would risk them disappearing altogether.
    The NYMR has depended, and still depends on grant funding. The Trustees have identified that in addition to the roughly £600to £700k generated each year as discretionary income ( grants bequests and donations) future viability requires an additional £1million fundraising every year. The grants that have enabled essential bridge replacements, without which Steve would have no volunteering opportunities at all, were given on the basis that they would secure jobs and the continuation of a major tourist contributor to the local economy with an emphasis on growing visitor numbers, most of whom want to travel to Whitby. Failure to adhere to the expectations and conditions on which grants have been provided would be a sure fire way of eliminating the possibility of securing further ones to achieve the £1million annual fundraising increase.
    Perhaps most members did not realise the effect that extending to Whitby would have on the railway but there is no financially realistic option of going back.
     
  15. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    Sounds like maybe the volunteers need to be brought into ownership of the objectives of the NYMR. Interesting that Bluebell ran some volunteer workshops that seemed to go down well according to the reports. As preserved railways have to focus more on survival maybe a good way forward to get the correct engagement.
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Shorter hours - most Pickering based turns are getting on for 11-11½ hours. With the current T/T's the only way hours can be reduced is to reduce most turns to a single round trip, which is not a great mileage. It also means more crews. It's also a fact that the Whitby turns do less miles (generally 60) than the non-Whitby turns (generally 72).
     
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  17. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Some very interesting points are emerging here. Firstly, that 85% of the NYMR's visitors are bound for Whitby - what does that say about the NYMR? How can it legitimately claim to be a registered museum or educational charity if the majority of its customers only want to use it to get to Whitby? They're not going to learn or experience a lot sitting in a Mk 1 just like those on virtually every other heritage railway in the country, are they? What it says to me is that the railway needs to develop to make itself a more attractive destination in its own right. If it becomes an attractive alternative destination to Whitby then Whitby services could be either dropped or rearranged so that they are less exacting to dovetail with.

    I work on vintage carriages, because I happen to believe that they should be central to a heritage railway - Mk 1s represent the very tail end of the line's history, as do diesels for that matter. We have to be pragmatic when it comes to locos because there are so few appropriate ones in preservation and so few are available to but most people travel in carriages, and that is where the railway should be willing to improve its offering. If it wasn't so focused on the "pile 'em high" Whitby market it might be possible to do more.

    Lastly, it isn't just footplate crews that support the NYMR as volunteers. Volunteers are found in every department and there does seem to be an increasing number complaining about the hours they are having to put in to keep the railway running. If too many get fed up and pack it in there's a real risk of a snowball effect that could devastate the railway very quickly as others note their decision and decide to follow suit. So even if you argue that the railway is being run for their gratification and that is against charity law, the cold hard fact is that without them the railway would not last long. Service intervals would be too long if the service had to be cut back to save on crew and run only with paid staff, owing to the length of the line, but shorten it to run from Grosmont or Goathland and the station facilities are inadequate (Goathland) or the entire run through the National Park is lost (Grosmont).

    In other words, to keep what we currently have will mean taking some tough decisions. Those who just want to carry on as we are now are clearly not thinking in terms of the long term survival of the railway.
     
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    That almost opens up the whole debate about what a Heritage Line really is.
    A steam train ride (in most cases)?
    Some form of education?
    A method to get from A to B?
    A feeder to the National Network?
    Part of an areas transport plans?
    A commercial enterprise?
    Something that lets us "play trains" in all its formats, be that driving restoration, photography etc
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    It may be any of the above, but where a heritage railway is set up under the governance of a charity, the answer that matters is what the purposes of that charity are as defined in the Articles. Which is where the sharp end of the question arises on the NYMR, for which mention of being a means of getting from A to B is not mentioned, but the heritage aspects are.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If we were rich, we could afford to play trains. As most of us don't fall into that category, we need others in the form of Joe Public to pay for our hobby. We are quite possibly unique in getting other people to pay for us to enjoy ourselves in this way. I can't think of another one where that happens.
     
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