Flying Scotsman

I don't think anyone's mentioned this livery yet, the colour it carried when I was born. Of course when it carried it there were no blinkers or double chimney, although at least by then it was actually an A3, which it never was when it carried the number 4472.

I'll stick with my preference for the way it is now.

 

Did it in a rush, so apologies.

 

Well, I'd have to call that colour 'rhubarb'. It's actually not too bad!

 

Just a thought, but if I'm lucky enough to see my 100th birthday, I hope to hell that they don't celebrate it by dressing me up as I had been a century before. Nappies and a long white gown are never a good look.

 

I thought most 100 year olds wore those anyway?

 

Many, but not all. I live in hope.

 

That was one of the other “most famous notorious locomotives”…

 

A full survey is not necessary; the examples show it's been in LNER apple green as 4472 longer than it has ever been as 60103 and all its major achievements again in said livery and number.

It's the difference between qualitative and quantitative evidence, and obvious primary evidence.

The point I was making - which seems to have been completely missed by everyone - is that the centenary is a celebration of the locomotive's life and achievements, all of which have been carried out in LNER apple green, to the widest possible audience at the time. If it's better known as 60103 I would be surprised as that would be a remarkable shift away from the power of the marketing forces behind it at every turn as LNER apple green, no.4472, Flying Scotsman.

I mean for crissake, Hornby/Triang have sold millions of the damn things in LNER apple green as 4472, to boot...what more evidence do you require?

 

Yes, but it’s also the first and lasting impressions it leaves after the fact. The NRM should have a think about the best way to showcase the Centenary celebrations.

 

I agree but idle speculation is a big part of what this forum is for, and is loved for - and sometimes hated but it’s not such a bad thing to be notorious.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the NRM had not picked such a tight timescale for the overhaul. I hope they don’t live to regret this decision.

Wouldn’t it be nice if a single chimney and blast pipe had been ordered and made in advance, it could have been ready by now.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the NRM had retained and overhauled the spare (A4) boiler, to enable a swift exchange whenever required.

Wouldn’t it be nice if they painted it blue on April 1st, with a grumpy Gordon face.

More realistically, wouldn’t it be nice if the NRM alternated, every 10 years, between the single chimney LNER liveried 4472 and the double-kylchap BR 60103. The anticipation could be savoured every time. A new tradition for the young to be initiated into and the alternating pathos of each tribe of old men fervently hoping (as some of us do) they’d live long enough to see just one more outshopping in their preferred form.

And I would pay for it all.

Like Alan Pegler I like both single and double-chimney forms, so long as they don’t paint it in LNER for as long as it’s a double (the suggestion that a Museum with any self respect should do this is wrong on so many levels). Never mind that it’s the 100th anniversary - that’ll be a big enough event no matter how the loco appears. But the event a few years later, when they finally do put it back in single chimney LNER-green (it’s inevitable) might just turn out to be bigger.

 

A couple of years back I did a job for an older couple. They lived within sight of the Frome-Weymouth line, and it became apparent that the old guy enjoyed seeing the steam trains when they passed, which led to a bit of a trains conversation. I learned that a great treat for them had been travelling behind Flying Scotsman, something he had wanted to do for a long time. "But" said her, "It wasn't the proper Flying Scotsman. It was all painted the wrong colour".
The persistently expressed view on here that the public neither know nor care what is on the front of the train, or what colour it is painted, I am extremely sceptical about. I suspect it is merely a claim made attempting to justify some folks idea that everything should wear BR livery, because that is what they themselves want.

 

True…but…

I was born after the end of steam, and learned of Flying Scotsman through a combination of Rev Awdrey and news reports. That identity was apple green and 4472.

When she was released in 2016, BR green and 60103 had to be explained.

This thoroughbred mongrel has existed in a strange mix of conditions for 60 odd years, since preservation. That is as much a part of her history as what went before, and was part of what the NRM acquired 15 or so years back. She was owned privately for longer than she was in traffic - that is part of the history that needs marking, not writing out.

I can’t personally get overly excited about her centenary, but I despair of the narrow purism being applied to a machine whose history doesn’t fit such constraints.


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Might have to rename and renumber it Pretty Polly if it were to carry that livery , But on a serious note, Isn't this yet another wasted opportunity by the NRM, had the museum, when the loco was outshopped following its overhaul, announced fundraising to have a new single chimney and blast pipe assembly made with the intention to revert it back to single chimney form in Apple Green, when it next gets overhauled, its highly likely that as others have said, by now, the parts would have been sat on a pallet in either the NRM, or Riley's works, awaiting the time to fit them. Sometimes i do wonder if the NRM, is the best curator of its working engines because of its internal policies of having to ensure originality, for instance, had the "spare" boiler been kept, it possibly could have been used either on 60103, or even to allow Mallard a further active period of use,

 

Agreed, but it is within a pattern. When Scotsman was released from overhaul in 2016, the use of BR green and number 60103 were consistently being explained in general media.

If there weren’t a known identity for the locomotive, that wouldn’t have been necessary.


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Or if I dare even suggest it - build a new A3 and stop the whole cyclical dispute; which would probably have been as cheap as the last overhaul anyway.
It is what it is - enjoy what it is - who knows how long it will or can last !

 

Yes! All should be able to agree with this.

 

True, If i am honest, i would have half expected an non steam policy regarding the national collection engines on display at York AND Shilton, And that Flying Scotsman would have not been overhauled once its 7 year ticket was up, but instead became an static exhibit .

 

Gents let's be honest we are lucky 60103 will be seeing in her 100th birthday in steam. As to what livery she is in, does it really matter? She seems to draw a crowd where ever she goes. Personally I prefer in the BR green, but at the end of the day she's in steam and we should be thankful for that.

Matt