If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

6201, her new lease of life.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sidmouth, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,663
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    66ED44EB-3B41-4C27-8B25-ED2F8E23586B.jpeg There’s a nice little reminder on the sides of 60163 John
     
    Sam 60103, mgl, Johnme101 and 6 others like this.
  2. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,595
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am surprised that 6201 continued to operate as long as she did. I travelled on a number of trips with her some years ago with Past Time Rail and when she was also hired by Steam Dreams to work their excursions in the South.
    Talking to the support group who brought the sales trolley through the train on these trips it was quite clear that things were not great back then with many people involved with the loco really unhappy with the dire management situation. It was very sad to see how unhappy they all were. It is clear something needs to change soon or 6201 will end up locked away as a static exhibit for the viewing pleasure of one person only as I can't see anyone being keen to donate any funds to the loco with the current situation.

    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
    maureen, andrewshimmin and osprey like this.
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,162
    Unless and until there's a plan to do some something constructive with her, why should West Coast give her shed space?
    Edit: I meant "something", not "some".
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,663
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There might be a legal contract involving that.
     
  5. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    4,889
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I guess the difference is that the bus was owned by the farmer 6201 is owned by a group is it not?
    The bus situation whilst disappointing, if you own something as an individual you can do what you want with it. Think of all the froth on here and elsewhere regarding No 9 and the museum.
     
    Richard Roper likes this.
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What has happened though over the last few 10 year boiler tickets, I'm assuming the organisers got hire and steaming fees, unless of course your hiring in people to do the stuff that the support crew would do, routine maintaince , inspections, in which case thats your overhaul fund spent, what do you do then? it seems to be a case of mismanagement of the loco.
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    How many locomotives pay for their overhauls on just steaming fees, though?
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,663
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    6201 is not owned by an individual though is it?
     
  9. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    4,889
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That what I said owned by a group is it not?
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Mainline mix, or heritage only? With years of some pretty impressive schedules behind its tender, I'd imagine 35028 must score highly in that regard.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    NELPG seem to do pretty well in maintaining their fleet through hire fee income although they never say no to donations and grants.
     
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,663
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Supposedly. Apologies if I’m taking my frustrations out on you @Gladiator 5076 I really shouldn’t, it’s just a rather frustrating situation.
     
  13. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The Treasurer can best answer that but I'm certain steaming fees alone didn't cover the last overhaul by any means. Don't forget there are a lot of maintenance costs, consumables, coal and an intermediate overhaul to pay for during a 10 year main Line stint.
    35028 also has a fairly simple life, it only works out of London, almost exclusively Victoria with the depot only a couple of miles down the line and most of the work is a four hour jaunt round the surrey Hills. Component wear is going to be a lot more of a problem when you are thrashing long distances over Shap and Ais Gill.
     
  14. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,849
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'd like to hope that most people will make a distinction between the engine and its owning group. I don't know anything about Mr Mojonnier other than what has been posted on here, but whatever anyone's feelings towards him, as far as 6201 is concerned I would have thought that for most people, the response to the likely long term absence of the loco form the main line would be one of sadness. It would be most useful to have another 8P in operation, especially given that the NRM has said it is highly unlikely that Mallard or Duchess of Hamilton will steam again in the foreseeable future, 60009 has been retired almost certainly for good and 6023 will probably never venture onto the main line. Yes, we will have 71000, 6024 and 60532 hopefully back in action before too long, but I have no doubt that if Lizzie was in good nick, there would be plenty of work available for such a powerful,air braked and hitherto popular engine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
    andrewshimmin, green five and 26D_M like this.
  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Rather reinforces my suspicion that it's £/bum/hr ratio is likely better, and the maintenance burden lighter than if it were routinely hammering up to northern summits on long turns. Add to which the Pullmans 35028 regularly handles command premium fares .... moreso, if posh nosh is improving the margins.

    Admittedly, commercial operation comes with it's own considerations. Over and above 25mph heritage line operation, I'm guessing routine mainline FTR requirements for reliable 75mph running are more involved and whilst I mightn't know the precise ins and outs of a 10year exam, the noticeably rapid overhauls certainly aren't going to come in cheaper than a less frenetic in-house volunteer job.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Question is - whose margins?
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Aside from track access? Loco presumably is hired to operator, who supplies crew (?) and support (?). Without sight of a loco owners' contract, which I 'd obviously not expect to see, impossible to say, though if it were costing owners or operators a packet, would it still be happening?
     
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    All fair questions. But I suspect the value of the Belmond traffic is certainty of income more than additional steaming fees themselves. I strongly suspect Belmond make the profits from the premium that their operation charges, not those providing services to them.
     
  19. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It’s certainly not normal for an operator to provide support, the support crew is the responsibility of the loco owner, in the case of West Coast that could of course be the same. The TOC will supply the footplate crew and guard.
    Support crew are another expense for the loco owner. There will be the cost of the PTS course and the refresher every three years along with the Rail Workers Medical Assessment. The frequency of the latter depends on age. The policy on who meets these costs will vary between loco owners, I’m not obliged to pay the cost of my annual medical but I choose to do so as a donation.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Increasingly I'm less convinced that is the case. Even with significant volunteer input into an overhaul, large quantise of actual cash will have to be spent. New castings, tyres, tubes, specialist metal working techniques such as building up and re-machining worn components etc. all require real money. Depending on the arrangement with "home base", rent may also have to be paid for shed space. If stored outside, the condition of things like platework and cladding tend to deteriorate if not constantly attended to, meaning more cost when eventually it is restored.

    With that in mind, an out-of-traffic loco is leaching money out of its owning group; the objective in cash term must be to get it back into traffic and earning as soon as is reasonably practicable.

    Most loco-owning groups are capital-poor, and therefore there is a strong tendency to progress projects "only as fast as funds allow". But I think in the long run, doing a project slowly ends up costing more than doing it more quickly. (Of course, sometimes the alternative to "doing it slowly" is "not doing it at all" - in which case it is the only option, just not necessarily the cheapest one).

    Tom
     

Share This Page