West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Would it be reasonably possible to run a six wheel milk tanker with the Caley tank and draw water from that?

 

Thank you indeed very glad indeed, another one to check out. I have managed to be intrigued by tenders which weighed more than the locomotives they were attached to, the Midland singles with bogie tenders and the Nord Atlantic’s in the 1930s - they were coupled to the huge tenders from the Super Pacific’s so they could go between Paris and Brussels non stop - were both examples.

 

I can think of some practical reasons why not ...

So just as a thought experiment: taking 4430 as reasonably typical of the type, the tare weight is 13t 8cwt, capacity 3,000 gallons, which is 30,000lbs or 13.5 tons. So in total you have 27 tons more or less, so the vehicle is basically equivalent to a carriage, which comes off your useful (remunerative) load. In other words, if you reckoned the loco was good for five coaches, it would be four coaches with a water tanker.

So then the practical problems - (1) does the WSR actually have a suitable operational vehicle (2) time is quite tight to come up with, and then develop an operational procedure for, a suitable pumping mechanism to transfer water from tanker to loco on the move? (how would it be powered? What would the control system be?) and (3) what happens on run rounds? You have to shunt the tanker to the other end of the train, and re-establish any water and electrical connections ...

My hunch is you were really concerned, you'd put a suitable fire engine at the mid point and set the timetable to allow water to be taken. That at least prevents the need to cart tons and tons of water over the various hills!

Tom

 

We've got an upgraded 2000g supply at Williton and have scheduled in water stop time to allow the Caley Tank to work full line trains.

The WSR does have 2 six wheeled tank wagons - one Milk and one Water Tank neither of which are operational but we'd like to get them there one day. Not for a practical purpose, just for show. Rigging up a pump or something similar would be impractical as you say and unnecessary.

 

No doubt someone will tell me I'm talking nonsense, but where is the water pump feeding water from the tanks to the injectors on steam locos? There isn't one because that job is done by gravity from the bottom of the loco's water tank, so provided that the outlet on a 6W water wagon is connected in no lower than the loco's own water feed gravity should take care of the rest! All that is needed is a suitable inlet on the loco's plumbing and a suitable length of hose, although admittedly such a system would only work in one direction unless a lot of shunting or a very long length of hose was used!

 

Purely for interests sake as @SebWelsh has addressed the issue in his above post…

On my “local” they use a couple of different water tankers, or water “Gins” as they are known colloquially. Before this they did use fire trucks from the volunteer rural fire brigade to top up at the half way stop. This is on a run of 60-70 miles (even longer than the WSR!). I don’t think there is any pumping involved in this case: just gravity fed from the tankers through the tender coupling AFAIK. This may not work with a tank engine though without a pump to refill the tanks??

 

I don't think you'd want to directly feed the injectors from a tank wagon. Would you couple that instead of the usual tank connection? If you connect both, then you add the risk of leaky connections between vehicles also emptying your onboard tanks. Much safer, albiet more complicated, to feed water from a wagon into the top of your onboard tanks.

 

In the UK the WHR has a tank wagon that can be coupled to a Garratt, and doesn't Tyseley also have a water carrier for use on the mainline?

Steve B

 

Bog standard arrangement for SAR steam, 2ft or 3ft6in gauge.

 

Same in Oz. Extremely long distances between stations and lack of water infrastructure in between. Or just plain lack of water!

If I could get poetic for a moment….


I love a sunburnt country, a land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges, of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons, I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror- the wide brown land for me!

Second verse of the poem “My country” by Dorothea McKellar. It’s a cracker.

 

OK, rig it so the loco siphons water from the tanker!

 

Using a tank wagon to supplement a locos own tanks would be dead easy to do and involve no pumps. That is, until you come to the end of the line and then need to run round and attach the tank to the other end of the loco as propelling it wouldn't be the best idea. Then things become more complicated and would probably make it a non-starter.

 

Must be why SAR habitually marshalled the bowsers twixt a pair of Garratts.

 

One on either end of the train ?

 

Not entirely true. The GM/GMA/GMAM/GO family all had their own dedicated water tank wagons numbered for the locos, which were rarely seen without them since their own water capacities were rather minimal (a deliberate decision to reduce axle load). Quite what they did at branchline termini I'm not sure, but they were hardly ever (if at all) photographed propelling the tanks out on the road.

 

A triangle is used with regards to the loco in my pictures above.

 

With 2857 confirmed as attending the WSR Spring Gala (as replacement for 9466 which is unavailable), the loco diagrams for the gala are all rewritten.

It has been quite widely asked for that these are released in advance and this is likely something we will do in future. It will be one or the other, either a program produced with allocations, or them released in advance online. However on this occasion, all prebooked ticket holders will be emailed the Loco Diagrams 48 hours before the start of the event on Thursday to give a bit of an opportunity to plan your days with us.

Additionally, if before you book you would like to know what a specific loco does, please message and let me know and I will answer your query.

Rest assured all locos work passenger trains on all days (bar 7822 on Thursday which is standby), most locos get a turn at the Goods Train which does plenty of miles too.
Thanks all,
Seb

 

It is nice to be reading some positive stuff about the WSR. Sadly, I cannot get to the Gala but I hope to read more about it here and hopefully see some pictures.