Project Wareham

No, I asked you for that definition. And, while you’re considering it, I’d also like you to define“viability” for an amenity service according to your definition. Percentages rather than hard cash will do, but you should assume for the sake of argument that no operational subsidy will be available and that any losses would fall on SRC.


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I supect the tidal range is also a much larger factor in such operations outside the Med.

 

Uncertain. For those Greek examples I've seen (only ever for foot passengers), the dwell times (other than at their "base terminal", where they 'tie up' normally) are comparable with rail. More than a couple of minutes would indicate a breakdown! Some operated (possibly still do) along the Cretan south coast, where several coastal settlements were many kilometers from anything better than a dirt track. These are (were?) very much local transport, not some mere tourist attraction. Reason for uncertainty .... It's been nearly 30 years since I was last there.

Perhaps stronger currents around the British Isles might explain the lack. Perhaps it's 'elfan safety'. Whatever the reason, I'd be genuinely interested to know.

 

Cosens used to use a gangplank to land at Lulworth Cove until the 1960's while the Devon Dock, Pier & Steamship Companies Duke of Devonshire & Duchess of Devonshire did it along the South Dorset/Devon coast, sadly the Dutchess of Devonshire was wrecked at Sidmouth while making a landing

See

https://www.kingswearcastle.org/jul...steamer-duchess-of-devonshire-in-august-1934/

 

Oh dear .... I think you might've just answered that particular question!

That is a very interesting article. Many thanks for digging it out.

 

If you are a member of the SRT why not,together with others who share your view point, bring forward a motion at the next AGM that the Passenger Service trials should NOT go ahead?

 

Is it safe to assume you've never read the threads concerning another standard gauge line some miles to the north west of Purbeck?

 

Never assume because..........,! AFAIK the SRC have said Passenger Service Trials will go ahead in 2023. I support that direction but there is obviously an element who believe that SR as it presently exists will be harmed if these prove successful.
We are,however,moving on into changing times and SRC looks as if it is willing to accept some of the challenges that entails. A whole new world awaits north from the Gates.1

 

No I believe there is a fair sized element who believe, just because it was an aim in 1981, that it must remain an aim for ever, even when the economic situation or safety rules have changed.
Likewise I believe there is a fair sized element that do not believe it should be operated on an ongoing basis if the trial results say otherwise and it bankrupts the railway in the process.
I assume you must also disagree with steam on the mainline as BR banned that in 1968.

 

I don't think anyone here has said the trials should not go ahead (subject to them not financially crippling the SR).
You've also been given the advice (many times) to contact the SRT about all the things that you think are wrong with the SR, and you've refused to do so, so it's a bit hypocritical to tell others to do it.

The question is (and you still refuse to answer this), what if the trials are unsuccessful?
Do you accept that the SR can be a successful heritage railway from Swanage to Norden with occasional incoming charters from the mainline and, if financially viable, occasional trains from Swanage to Wareham, with the main line link also used to bring in materials and plant for PW work.
That is a simple yes/no answer.

 

As ever you are missing the point, or simply choosing to ignore reality. Or just living in the past. Everyone who has posted on here wants the best for SR and wants to see it thrive. The original aspirations to connect back to Wareham and run a regular service were laudable and well intentioned. But not costed or planned in detail. I for one would love to see a regular service restarted. However, Light Railway legislation limiting running speeds to 25mph, together with the operating issues running into Wareham mean that a regular commercial service is unlikely to be profitable. Not when the bus is actually quicker! The concern of a number of posters is that the cost of running such a service will damage SR, not that the nature of the railway will change.

It is clearly right and proper to run the trial next year. My guess is that the outcome will be that any timetabled service will be limited to a couple of services on a Saturday, if at all. It is right for SR to invest some money in proving this one way or the other - but not to flog a dead horse and risk the railways financial future. But based on the experience of other heritage railways who have tried this out, I would suggest that you prepare to be disappointed.

 

Because, aside from anything else, I’ve never suggested that trials shouldn’t happen.

Now, about my questions?


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FWIW, if the modelling suggests (and I'm sure there must be very basic modelling to support this) that the trials will incur a substantial loss in 2023 or whenever, then they clearly should not go ahead. Personally speaking, and I've said this before, DCC will have written off that money years ago and I would suggest would be more than happy to knock the trials idea on the head and get on with more important things.

 

Back in 2016
https://web.archive.org/web/2016051...-heritage-diesel-trains-for-main-line-running
"The Swanage Railway has been given a grant of £1.86 million from the Government's Coastal Communities Fund to introduce a trial passenger train service from Swanage to the main line at Wareham. It is planned to run the service on 50 selected days during 2017 and 90 selected days during 2018.
The grant covers the restoration of the former Network Rail line as well as the restoration and upgrade, to main line standards, of the two ex-British Railways diesel trains – a one-coach Class 121 'Bubble Car' and a three-coach Class 117 unit".

https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/ne...-feasibility-study-into-wareham-train-service.
The business case had some money given in 2020 for updating, and so far not publically available

https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/news/view/wareham-trial-train-service-postponed-to-summer-2023
“Trading conditions and economic uncertainties permitting, we plan to run a 90-selected day trial train service to the main line Wareham during 2023."

Went to Windsor today and saw large crowds (looked like tourists) use the GWR Slough–Windsor & Eton line and presumably had used the GWR main line connection at Slough. There are also buses but these passengers preferred the DMU train (now class 165, but was a Class 117). So in some ways similar to the Wareham line, although further away from London there could be some good tourist use in 2023 (and ticket revenue) if promoted well.

 

You are really Mick Lynch and I claim my £5!

 

Partly I suspect because the train takes 6 minutes and the bus 22 minutes.
Using Paddington as an example day return to Slough £11.50, Windsor & Eton Central £12.80 so you get the branch for £1.30 return. Full fare from Slough £3.30 return. Bus I think is £2 each way, but even to bus pass users unless on an extreme budget, I suspect having arrived by train more attractive, and I have not included railcard discounts that many bus pass users would have.
Slough to Windsor trains run every 20 minutes, so not quite comparable to Wareham to Swanage or Corfe, especially where the "add on fare" is concerned I suspect.

 

Molehill Brigade digging furiously today!!

 

To quote Elvis "You gave me those molehills to climb"

 

I am prepared. Are the naysayers ready for a positive result? What will their position be when a Swanage to Wareham service is approved for scheduled services?