7027 Thornbury Castle

Basis for a Great Bear?

 

It's definitely not as easy as chopping up a Triang Princess to make something else, is it?

 

Possibly - though given the publicity he's given to it, he may have pause for thought.

 

It could be turned into a realistic 9F by painting it black and getting rid of the nameplates

 

Unlikely. The one he always wanted was 70013 Oliver Cromwell - photos on his office wall in the 1980's.

 

Talk about saying “nothing to do with us”!


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Kinda it is nothing to do with us. Seems like they didn't know.

 

Very strange in the context of this quote from Richard Croucher in the Rail Advent release:
Another issue is building the boiler; “Informally, we’ve spoken to a number of possible contractors who have intimated their preference for a steel firebox, while at the GWS, we’d prefer a copper unit. The downside to steel would be the need for a redesign of the entire firebox with the inevitable delays and re-design approval that would cause. We also know that the life expectancy will be shortened, while its maintenance costs will be proportionally higher.”

Hands cannot be washed that easily.....................when the .... hits the fan.

 

Would any brand new boiler for 4709 not require design approval, regardless of steel or copper firebox? Whereas an existing No.8 boiler can presumably be re-used without that, though of course with inspection as with any boiler.

 

Are you regarding the conversion of a Hall to a Saint as reverse-engineering an improved design into an unimproved one? I wouldn't consider a Hall an "improved" design but a modified design for a different purpose. Apart from the wheel size there's not much difference that could be considered better or worse.
Or are you referring to the possible future conversion of the bottom half of a Castle into a Star? The main difference there was merely enlargement; a slightly larger boiler supplying slightly larger cylinders to provide slightly more power. How was a Castle "improved" over a Star, apart from having a somewhat more generous cab?

 

Not sure how old that quote is but Richard Croucher retired as Trustee and Director 3 years ago so can't be considered to be speaking for the Society now. Even then "we'd like a copper boiler" doesn't amount to an instruction to go out and buy a Castle to cut up to get one!

 

It was quoted today by Rail Advent in their release concerning the sale of 7027.
I don't see how the GWS can try to distance themselves from an "umbrella group" so easily. Is it that when everything is going fine you are "part of the GWS" but when there is a cock up like this you are on your own?
Surely being an "umbrella group" holds certain responsibilities towards those holding the umbrella?

 

Probably not too involved if built faithfully to the original design as is being done with 82045 (a victimless project loco wise)

 

Again, if we leave people's own emotive language out of it, no one has actually cut anything up. A group purchased a dismantled loco, in order to use a boiler, which they don't even need to remove from the frames...

 

I’m given to understand that he tried to buy 70013 off the NRM, and then, when this was refused, in a fit of pique attempted to destroy the relationship between the NRM and 5305LA - 70013’s custodian group.

 

I'm not sure whether you are saying GWS or 4709 are the umbrella group. Re-reading the announcement, there seems an open question about what it means to be an "autonomous group" under the parentage of the larger charity - there are some decisions which are big enough that the governance should be at the level of the parent, not the subsidiary and, judging by the reactions, this is one such.

 

Although I've not had much involvement for the past four or five years, before that I was heavily involved at Didcot for nearly two decades.

Over the years Didcot ended up in the grip of a small clique of influential individuals, who were only interested in high profile locomotive projects, largely newbuilds. Among this group was the then GWS Chairman, who was aided by the GWS' Articles of Association, which left the Chairman unaccountable to the membership. He could therefore launch projects, and designate himself as fundraiser, as he saw fit. If he wasn't interested in something, he didn't do it. Another member of this clique ended up (briefly!!) as a Director, and I actually have in writing his proposal to close the railway centre down and turn it into a private engineering base for newbuilds! At best, these people naively thought that their projects would turn the fortunes of the place around, but I think it's more accurate to say that they were completely disinterested in Didcot as a museum. Instead, the railway centre, and the name of the GWS, was simply a vehicle which allowed their dream projects to be produced. The rest of us were just left to 'get on' with keeping 'everything else' going.

The architects behind these projects no longer hold office within the GWS, but the organisation is left with their legacy. One legacy is that the GWS now has an almost institutionalised lack of direction. Another legacy, is that wider perceptions of Didcot have become framed by newbuilds, which have both draw attention away from the existing collection, and skewed its role as a museum of the GWR.

This is not meant as a criticism of those who work at the coalface on these projects. But what we have seen today is the continued lack of accountability that certain people seem to think they are still entitled to. This lack of accountability created a very entrenched 'them and us' attitude on the ground at Didcot, which is what you are seeing in that statement. This lack of accountability is also why you have people with no official role acting as 'spokesmen' for the Society. This has been going on for years! (But you were only a 'GWS spokesman' if you were in the clique...)

I have in the past stood up at an AGM and asked some pretty fundamental questions, for which I didn't receive any real answers. It's high time more people within the GWS put their head above the parapet and questioned what is going on. It would of course help if the AGM was held in real life and not on Zoom...

CJ