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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. DavidH

    DavidH New Member

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    I disagree that there was a clamour (edit: at the time of my original reply) - there was and is a range of opinions yes, but isn't there always? I'm not re-reading the thread because I didn't see what you were claiming first time round. Otherwise I wouldn't have made the observation ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  2. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    there were only 10 of the things so hardly remarkable and in preservation terms it is a white elephant .

    anyway some wag has already given the new build GWS star a name ...........

    wait for it .....
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    Its worth it
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    Death Star
     
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  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Did you read what I said? I have now highlighted the last part. I was responding to the suggestion that "The 4709 folk should be encouraged to sell the loco on to those who are prepared to pay for it and its restoration of 7027", which seems an unlikely prospect.
     
  4. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It was actively being worked on until the person who owned it decided to sell. That may seem tough on the people who were doing the work but "**** happens" as they say. The new owners have indicated that no parts that are fit for re-use will be wasted.
     
  5. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Umm...how exactly would you fit this new wider barrel to the firebox throatplate, bearing in mind the throatplate will be flanged to suit the castle barrel?
     
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  6. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    yes **** happens but 7027 was not a no hoper that 4115, 2861, 48518, 7927 and 5227 are portrayed as It was making very positive strides in its restoration

    Reading much of the comment a large majority are against the cannibalisation of 7027 for 4709 and as we have seen both 4709 and the GWS are seeing significant reputational damage currently
     
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  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    7027 - Thornbury Castle

    As many within the steam movement digest the recent information relating to the engine with much shock we now need in my opinion to try and take some form of action to try and rewind the fate for Thornbury Castle.

    I sold the engine as circumstances at the time suggested it was the right thing to do, we were lucky to find a buyer who pledged to do right for the loco and it was evident the team at the GCR clearly had the skills to get her back into traffic.

    From Jon Jones Pratt , posted on Facebook this evening

    The latter is proven by how well the group have got on with the loco and excellent progress made. For me it was safe hands and a good move.

    We then learn around two weeks ago that she was up for sale, I made contact with the GCR to ask if this was true as I was shocked/disappointed. Confirmation was given that 7027 was for sale and I then asked for a introduction to the current owners, yesterday we found out of the sad news that she was now to become a donor loco.

    I must be very clear with you all, this was never part of the agreement and I was very specific that when she was sold with good faith conditions to protect her future.

    This evening I have made contact with the GCR to once again ask for a introduction to the owners, for one outcome, in the hope to secure the purchase and stop this nonsense.

    My hope will be that if this can be done we build a group to take the engine ownership forward as well as protecting those currently involved remain involved and that 7027 steams again!! I cannot sit back and watch this happen.

    Let’s hope, feel free to spread the word (this post is public) and do make contact as many of you already are if you feel you can provide any help/support.

    JJP
     
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  8. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There were only 10 Clans but the construction of Clan Hengist is well advanced so is that also a white elephant in your opinion?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Is it a useful engine in preservation ? By the time it is built main line steam as we know it could be very different . I cant see many preserved lines wanting to run it apart from the first couple on gala's. Being very honest it fills a gap but a 77xxx would have been more useful

    As they are on their , third set of frames , can I see it being finished , I hate to say it but probably not
     
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  10. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    A little unfair on the current Clan group, who, with CTL, seem to be running a model new build prgramme.
     
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  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    happy to be proven wrong and after the false starts it is taking steps . Has some very big bits to navigate
     
  12. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Call the grammar police again Tom - any moron knows that the correct word is “bigly” ;)

    If that’s the case then they had better re-name Thornbury to “Alderaan Castle”….
     
  13. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    The other difference is the Clan isn’t robbing preservation of an engine that was being actively restored in its own right. It might of been not so bad if the end result was something authentic to the 47xx but it’s actually not is it? That’s what has got peoples backs up. Like I said earlier this isn’t preservation, it’s people fulfilling fantasy.
     
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  14. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    Its a sad situation where a loco that *finally* seemed to have some good prospects is potentially going to be broken up.

    I'm unconvinced that 7027s boiler is the right answer for the night owl, and I do worry that it just means that 7027s chassis ends up in limbo.

    My suspicion is that were a Star proposed, that by the time the night owl is done, those involved will be of the age that embarking on another project of similar enormity will be beyond the realms of possibility.

    7027 in my eyes will likely end up similar to (30)841 on the NYMR, as a source of spares for 4079 and potentially 5051.

    I share some of the concerns raised regarding the function of the GWS- they do already own an incredible fleet of largely non-functional locomotives and I'd be likely keener to donate we're the focus to return to operating/restoring and telling the story with their existing fleet.

    Didcot appears to be shadow of its former self, I have seen videos and pictures from the 80s and 90s showing a vibrant, active site with various members of the fleet in steam- my visit in 2018 the place seemed rather stagnant.

    Thats not to say I wouldn't like to see the night owl run, but breaking up a loco which has had significant work done, to use a boiler which isn't really correct seems a big leap, and one that I'm not very keen on.

    Chris
     
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  15. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Preservation is for the enthusiasts, fantasy is for the punter. The potential full stop to the story of a surviving loco doesn’t sit well with me, but it’s not my money, not my loco, not my time and energy so I’m loathe to be too critical. Personally I’d like to see a good representation of a 47xx - rivet counters can bury their own dead. How it gets recreated and the long term ramifications (good or bad) are something hard to value before the fact.

    Changes to “authenticity” have always been the sole property of the owner. It has always been thus from the foundry to the scrapyard.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  16. 43729

    43729 New Member

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    I have been motivated by this situation to end the argument and put my money where my mouth is.

    I will build a new boiler! Authentic in every detail. It shouldn't be that hard. If anyone wants to help me feel free. Together we can achieve the impossible!

    Together we can rebuild 44901!!!!!

    Sorry wrong thread.....
     
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  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Are you by any chance in Canada?
     
  18. maddog

    maddog New Member

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    Whilst having seen this loco in Weston it's a bit sad it's not now going to run again, i am perhaps in favour of it's new path, especially if it speeds up the 4700 and possibly allows a "new" Star class.

    If a castle is to run mainline, it is presumably best to run at the ultimate development of the class, especially so being a 7P. Wheres even in original 1920s single chimney form it is perhaps too large for effective use on most preserved lines.

    Without knowing the stages of restoration on the locomotive it's hard to say whether this is a loco that was on the cusp of return or whether it still had a long way to go, but that work can be used for new projects.
     
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Maybe, to me though there is a world of difference to what the 47xx group are doing to when Tornado was built or is happening with 82045. It’s not just authenticity that’s the issue here, although it does play a part in the sense that this plan doesn’t manage to achieve that. The original plan was better in that respect, now some may think finding a short cut is a great idea as the 47xx is built quicker, the reality is it would have been better to take longer and get it right, while not depriving the wider scene of another working loco.

    GWS are supposed to be telling the story of the GWR, part of me questions if that is really happening with the creation of the frankenloco.
     
  20. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I note your wording but I seriously doubt that any of those would have been “no hopers” in different ownership. The only one I’ve seen (other than as parts in or adjacent to a skip) is 5227 and it looks far better to me than some of the other hulks which have been returned to steam already elsewhere. (Quite apart from which, Didcot don’t even have another 5205 class.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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