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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    In my opinion that's demonstrably incorrect. There are more overhauls and restorations going on than new builds, and a team was formed at Didcot in the last few years specifically to look after the inactive fleet. It is, of course inevitable that there will be a lot more publicity for the high profile stuff - how much press coverage would you expect for "5900 has recently been polished, oiled round and had her paint touched up where necessary"?
     
  2. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    That the GWS have seemingly disowned their former chairman tells you all you need to know.
     
  3. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    Hear, Hear!!!
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Your condescending reply is noted.
     
  5. Musket The Dog

    Musket The Dog New Member

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    Despite my previous postings I wasn't trying to come across as having an 'attitude' in a particular direction or the other, just highlight some of the very real questions regarding the situation we now find ourselves in.

    The reality is that this isn't something that can/should be spread over the long term like the A1, the P2, 71000, (insert your own multi-year restoration/new build here). You buy it 'now' or the the 4709 group shoulder the burden while the supporters get their money together. Just like all the previous owners. How many more could have been saved originally if BR were just willing to store their old assets for free while denying the scrapman's offer and waiting for the pioneers to scramble around for cash?

    I'm happy to see an ex-Barry wreck given life again, I enjoy seeing new builds of lost classes recreated. I don't lament the idea of the loco being sold back but there's been a long time to sort out Thornbury, it just wiffs a bit of too little, too late to me. So I can't reasonably chastise a group who had the resources to get want they wanted and that went out and did it.
     
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  6. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    But that solves very little indeed!
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    all very well building the engine but if after ten years (or earlier) you have insufficient funds to keep the loco in traffic and overhaul it then that suggests the operating business plan is not sustainable . Those donating to such a scheme you would think expect more than one ten year in traffic
     
  8. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    For your information, my comment was in reply to this statement:

    "I'd image a few folks will have an eye on how the 'newbuilds' fare, come the end of a 10 year ticket?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm never one to criticise ambition and I recognise there are always going to compromises involved in keeping things jogging along, but I've a nagging suspicion the existing Didcot collection is being allowed to wither while the spotlight is on the headline grabbers. I do hope I'm wrong .....
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    As has been said multiple times, the loco has been in private hands for most of its post Barry life. The preservation world at large didn't have a chance to do anything during those years.
     
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  10. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    There is a possible twist to this tale. 7027 is sold and causes uproar among some enthusiasts. The present buyer has second thoughts when an appeal is launched to same 7027; they can resell and hopefully make a small profit enabling them to continue with their project albeit revised. A previous owner has shown interest, as maybe others have. Time will tell!

    There does seem some bitterness to the GWS in some quarters, which on the face of it is designed, intentionally, or not, to cause them financial damage. Sadly the heritage movement is littered with similar cases.
     
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  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The last couple of years feel to me as if some sort of watershed has been crossed and consequently suspect you've named but one of our operating paradigms which will now need revising.
     
  12. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, reading many posts here and elsewhere, if you didn't know the history you would assume that a) Thornbury is little more than a hulk having been stored with no work done since she left Barry in August 1972 and b) there has been an appeal running for decades where people could donate and get involved in her restoration.
     
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  13. Musket The Dog

    Musket The Dog New Member

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    Excluding all the times it has been for sale previously (assuming it hasn't just been passed between mates). What I'm trying to say is that until now it's just been left to chance that the individual purchasing it will do with it as we want. Suddenly now that sitting back and waiting hasn't worked the way we wanted to there's money and the organisation to secure a proper long term plan but in the process we need to paint a group of people as villains.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  14. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    It's just a reaction to what the GWS has done. Why "is it designed, intentionally, or not, to cause them financial damage"? Wishful thinking?
     
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  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The bitterness towards GWS seems to me to be a combination of two things. One is specifically to do with this project, and a scheme that lacks a fair degree of historical engineering integrity. The other is a coming to a head of a number of lurking concerns about GWS policy and management over a number of years, crystallised in GWS apparently being the body that has written/will write the cheque for 7027.

    Given the difficulty of forcing a change on preservation society leaderships when they wish to proceed with contentious projects (see threads about WSR passim ad nauseam), our wallets are often the only serious means to exert influence.
     
  16. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    Can you remember any time when it was announced that the loco would be put up for sale with time enabling a group to come together? AFAIK, by the time it has been announced that it has been up for sale in the press, it has actually already been sold.
     
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  17. Musket The Dog

    Musket The Dog New Member

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    So why is it that individuals could approach the owner about taking it on seemingly before it was for sale, but a group genuinely interested in securing it's long term survival couldn't register their interest for when the opportunity arose?
     
  18. hyboy

    hyboy New Member

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    I have been fortunate to be able to financially support various projects over the years most notably Tornado and Beachy Head. Thornbury did not interest me over much except l have been drawn in by the distinctly odd proposal to use its boiler for 4709. The original scheme for 4709 if l remember correctly was to use cylinders and boiler from 2861. This all seemed very reasonable and prototypical . Then along came the red herring of main line use and a sudden swerve into a financial black hole. In the meantime the price and availability of coal became a pressing issue, now so bad that its very existence in five or 10 years looks questionable. Build timescale becomes even more an issue. Much of the fascinating discussion on this site has thus taken on a similarity to arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. In short my humble opinion is that Thornbury should be left well alone, the 4709 project should go back to basics and their 2861 boiler should be urgently assessed for use if possible to mate it to the new cylinders. Surely this boiler can be dressed to resemble a no.7 boiler as easily as a no. 8 ? It should be significantly more economical to run and lighter than either, so more suitable for heritage use. A new no.7 boiler is of course achievable at a premium but also seriously reduces the ' Swindon' built contribution to the finished article and is likely to extend the construction time. Obviously l am not intending to put my money where my mouth is so my opinion has far less weight than those who have or will contribute.
     
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  19. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Well to use your example, you'd have to setup a group first (can be costly/time consuming depending on group type), then approach the owner, who could well say no - what do you do with your group then?
    If you setup a group and advertise it as the '7027 Preservation Society' to attract members/funds, you will undoubtedly attract ridicule if you haven't actually made an agreement to buy the loco.
     
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  20. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    Also, I highly doubt anyone would have ever imagined this situation would have presented itself, particularly in recent years when a restoration had begun. No one would have believed a group of GWR enthusiasts would cut up a Castle, especially for a 47xx.
     
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