Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway

Are there any other unloved Austrian 0-6-2Ts that might be "surplus to requirements"?

 

Has anyone had a thought about trying to get one of the ex-DR 99.77-79 2-10-2T's?
Pat

 

I think "not best suited to ZB modern day requirements" would be a far fairer description of the current visitor than "unloved". Remember, the ZB isn't primarily a heritage operation and as fine a loco as it is, Nr.2 is simply unable to keep pace with a fully functioning commercial railway

Has any contract extention, perhaps even a 'full ticket' loan been ruled out? Has it proved it's mettle sufficiently versus Golfa Bank for the question to be asked?

Looking to India. I suspect the chances of getting one of the two surviving plinthed ex-Barsi 4-8-4T (designed by Calthrop of L&MVLR fame) would be slim to non-existent ....worst luck (!) but does anyone know whether anything else is lurking in a shed somewhere, awaiting rescue form the cutter's torch?

Interesting question raised re: German 2-10-2T (I assume 750mm gauge Class 99.77–79 is meant?). Wikipedia tantalisingly mentions the existence of some on the island of Rügen, though whether gainfully employed and in what condition isn't mentioned. Worth a look, I'd have thought.

 

I was using the term "unloved" to mean "no longer required" and was not thinking of the ZB in particular. That could be anything from a plinthed example to fully working one, although a plinthed one is more likely The point is that although they might end up with something that needs an overhaul, they would at least know that it would be well suited to their needs and would look well with the ZB carriages (although I admit that's not really an important consideration!). The real question is whether they actually need another engine to meet their needs!

 

What about one of those Nepalese Garratts, that seem to have been abandoned?

 

Good luck with that! The smaller Hudswell Clarke locos would be a nice touch, I got quite a way with the purchase of one until everything in Nepal went pear shaped.

 

By "they", can I take it you mean the W&L? So far as I'm aware, regarding the home fleet, the only flies in the ointment were occasioned by both covid and those never ending issues with the Reşiţa, which culminated in it being deported as an 'undesirable alien' (!).

With the rebuild of No.10 Sir Drefaldwyn coming along nicely, I don't know to what extent the loco dept. is playing catch-up, but No.10 is not yet complete and SLR No.85 remains OOS in the queue (plus IIRC, No.2 Countess is now due it's 10 year). I'd imagine 3 working steam locos (plus a diesel 'thunderbird') is the bare minimum needed to guarantee a full summer timetable, so the line doesn't exactly seem awash with surplus motive power.

ZB Nr.2 seems to have acquitted itself well and it certainly looks completely at home. Maybe W&L staff have just had time to fine tune it and get used to the quirks every steam loco exhibits? Circumstances permitting, I for one certainly wouldn't object to an extended stay by this beauty.

 

If you know where to look then I can think of a number of 2ft 6in gauge lines which are no longer working, how about Java? or if you really want to stir up a hornets nest go to Cuba and buy one of those wonder Baldwin 2-6-0 tender locos.

I think Australia might has a few plinthed 2ft 6in gauge steam locos not on the puffing billy line.

I forgot most of Eastern Europe or how about China.

Colin

 

They were once were in India but now lurking in a shed somewhere a bit closer, just down the road in Aberystwyth …..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/6292932425

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ranachatterjee/5453020858

https://flic.kr/p/7VB5Ad

There’s one from Kent as well …..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/5499050527

But more realistically, the W&L doesn’t have resources to speculatively acquire and restore locos which may or may not turn out to useful on the line, for various reasons Monarch, Orion, Resita and Chevallier have not been considered suitable in the long run

 

Time for a new build BP then?

 

Forget the 2-10-2.

 

Java would be an interesting challenge. IIRC, there's an Indonesian law in force which prohibits the sale abroad of scrap metal. The way round this is for the boiler to be made fit to hold pressure* in order to demonstrate it's a working loco being exported.

Someone mentioned the Nepalese Garratts. Certainly when the subject of flogging steam locos off , everything hit the fan .... but that was before all the grooviness a few years back. I seem to recall reading somewhere that only one of the two articulated locos survives.

India had a veritable cornucopia of 2'-6" gauge steam of course, most of it long since scrapped. What hasn't been is often now highly regarded and on public display around the network. Many were humongous and likely way too big for the W&L (many regauged to 3ft would be way too big for the IMR!). I've a slim volume on Indian NG (2ft, 2'-6" gauge) locos, but it's now hopelessly out of date. Certain Baldwin 10-12-D 4-6-0PT locos are listed which are now at Leighton Buzzard, Blodge and Aberystwyth!


*It seems pretty much any pressure. Not sure if the loco has to move, or just whistle!

 

Well, 14.8psi is demonstrably a pressure ...

(Or even less, given it's Nepal and much of it is nice and high!)

Tom

 

.... as long as the test isn't making a decent pot of tea from a boiler trycock!

The more I look at the way the W&L switchback sorts the sheep from the goats, the more I think how remarkably good a starting point BP's design was (aside, it seems, from their original boiler design, which it's alleged took an age to raise steam) and what a shame the originally intended third loco never materialised.

Mind you, the Corris had three identical locos until somewhere between 1913 and 1921, then two near identical locos and some spare parts, then after 1930, just the one and no spare parts to speak of.

 

Currently there are 5 steam locos on the W&LLR, plus one on hire. To maintain a service requiring two locos I'd say they really need a fleet of 6. three in steamable condition, one in the later stages of overhaul and one in the earlier stages and one in store just in case - so I would say they are currently a loco short of the ideal. The ZB loco does seem to have proved itself as suitable for the line so a non-runner, bought as a longer term project, would seem to be a good plan if one could be found, although I must admit that the Nepalese locos do look enticing, especially the Garratts!

 

Cheers for that. Any idea what the attitude (at both ends) is to extending ZB Nr.2 is? It certainly seems a hell of a lot more useful in Wales than sitting cold and idle back home in the Zillertal !

The Tubize 2-6-2 proved too big (was it weight, track spreading or both?) and returned to it's home stamping grounds (are there still cordial relations with Finland?). That one really looked lime a mainline loco to my eye.

Lover of big, bendy locos though I am, is the W&L really prime Garratt territory? To my mind, small(ish) locos working hard are one of the key attractions of the W&L. Does a stonking great Garratt flattening Golfa add to the ambience? Somehow, it seems like cheating!

 

The steam and exhaust pipe joints on Monarch's power bogies didn't take kindly to the switchback nature of the W & L's gradients, so I'm not sure that a Garratt would fare any better.

 

Probably nothing which could not be designed out of the Bagnall engine. Much like so many of the "issues" deemed to be "an insurmountable problem" on this locomotive. It is not as though there has been no advancement in ideas and and so on throughout all the years of experience with many different articulated types.

 

The NG lines in S.Africa associated with the NGG16 were pretty 'switchback' in nature, with some fearsome drops to river crossings. I feel Monarch is a very different kettle of fish. TBH, I remain to be convinced of the soundness of the fundamental concept, as I'm not aware of any (successful) applications of that layout beyond the purely industrial.

If someone sufficiently versed in steam loco design were to draw up a report on what it'd take to render Monarch usable, I'd sit up and take notice, but the litany of woes attributed to such locos generally means I feel the money which would need to be committed to producing something merely functional would be better spent on restoring something with a better than evens chance of being on the indispensable side of useful.

Query: Glancing at old images of stock elsewhere, following recent discussions on this thread, made me wonder about the loading gauge of the W&L, or kinematic envelope, if you prefer. Apropos nothing more than a grumpy old git's idle thoughts on stock with balconies ......

Mr.Calthrop's distinctly commodious carriages for the L&MVLR were 42ft long, 8ft wide and 10ft high

The Pickering carriages supplied to the (2'-3" but convertible to 2'-6" gauge) C&MLR 43'-6" long* by 7'-2¾" wide (over bodywork) and 8'-10¾" high (rail to roof .... vents added a few inches).

*It surprised me, too!

 

The W & L passenger stock was vastly less expensive than that of the L&M yet adequate for the job. The W& L Board did the line a real service by seeing Calthrop coming.