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Beattie LSWR Locomotives

Discussion in 'Photography' started by neildimmer, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    The London and South Western Railway (LSWR) 0298 Class or Beattie Well Tank is a class of British steam locomotive. They are 2-4-0WT well tanks, originally built between 1863 and 1875 for use on passenger services in the suburbs of London, but later used on rural services in South West England.


    30585 and sister loco unknown location

    https://railway-photography.smugmug...eattie-Well-Tanks-Pre-1968/Pre-1968/i-V2HBM46



    plenty of locations to find please on nearly all the photos



    Neil
     
  2. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Picture 1 is at Brighton station with preserved locos from the Preston Park store on display in the early 70s. Looks like 34051 behind 30587

    Peter
     
  3. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    17 and 18 are both at New Malden.
     
  5. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    7/70 30587 is also Brighton
    12/70 30587/30585 Raynes park from the end of the Down Slow platform
    64/70 30586 Wadebridge
    69/70 30587 Eastleigh Works

    Cheers, Neil
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Pretty certain both 46 and 59 are on shed at Wadebridge, looking across the river Camel.

    Tom
     
  7. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    I have added a collection of of new photos of Late 19th Century /early 20th Century photos of J. Beattie locomotives
    Including this photo of
    209 on the first train ready to leave Swanage 30th May 1885 Beattie 209 LSWR 'Welltank' 0298 Class 2-4-0WT
    https://tinyurl.com/492u4ehf

    Neil.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  8. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

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    Neil
    This picture does not show the inaugural train although this was a popular myth for quite a time. It was more likely to have been taken in 1887 according to sources in Swanage.
    Mr S Dowden of the Southern Railway's Treasurer's Office at Waterloo wrote to the Editor of the Southern Railway Magazine to confirm that, in his view, it was not the inaugural train - although he offered no alternative date. The rest of his response, was published in the November 1931 edition of the magazine as follows:

    "... On the loco were Driver B Banks and Fireman Longman [who was later promoted to Driver at Guildford]. Then in a line on the platform (from left to right) are: Unknown; Guard Young; Mr Tinsley (Agent at Wareham); Mr Parson (G.F. Agent at Swanage); Mr ? (Bookstall Boy at Swanage) [may be Mr Fidler who, by 1931, was in charge of Surbiton Bookstall]; then Messrs Melmouth, Whiffen and Unknown."
    No mention is made of the person, in the background, leaning against the 4-wheel covered van in the Bay platform. However, it's good to see a number of staff have been identified but some of those present will remain unknown it seems.

    Underneath the photo in the magazine was the caption stating that it was photograph "LGRP No. 17791". I haven't a clue as to what is meant by the reference to LGRP other than (just a guess) Locomotive/London Group of Railway Photographers - but a Google search has proved fruitless thus far.

    In case you are interested, loco 209 was built by Beyer, Peacock & Co Ltd as part of a batch of six Class 0298 engines numbered 209 to 214. No. 209 was outshopped from their Gorton Works near Manchester in April 1866. A total of eighty five Class 0298 engines were built in various small batches between 1863 and 1875. Three of the 85 were not built by Beyer, Peacock though as the L&SWR themselves constructed locos numbered 33, 36 and 76 at their Nine Elms works in 1872.

    Originally, the Class 0298 design of engine was built for LSWR's early commuter services out of Waterloo but, when trains got heavier, they had to be moved to lighter duties in the West of England such as Swanage branch trains and the china clay trains around Wenford Bridge of course.

    As yet I have been unable to ascertain exactly any of 209's activities, other than it's pictured use on the Swanage Branch some time in the 1880's, nor when it was withdrawn and scrapped. Does any Nat Pres forum-ite have further information on Beattie Well Tank No. 209 please?
     
  9. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Look up Locomotive & General Railway Photographs and you will find the info. there. It was a huge collection of mainly b&w portrait pictures of locomotives and is now housed in the NRM

    Peter
     
    buzby2, Wenlock and Jamessquared like this.
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No. 209 was built in April 1866, having been ordered under order S971 on 23 June 1865.

    In common with many of the class, it was rebuilt as a tender engine in November 1887 - this occurred because large numbers of new Adams 415 class tank engines displaced the Beattie locos from their original use on suburban passenger workings, dispersing the Beattie locos to the provinces. Limited water capacity was an issue, so 31 of the class, including No. 209, were rebuilt as tender engines using redundant 1950 gallon tenders. At that point, they were fitted with Adams cabs, and stovepipe chimneys, injectors (rather than the complex system of crosshead and donkey pumps they originally had), steam brakes and vacuum ejectors, along with new boilers.

    The loco was duplicated in December 1891 (i.e. cyphered as 209 and and new loco 209 constructed); finally scrapped December 1893.

    Early loco allocations are unknown, but Bradley sates that "it is probably safe to assume most went to Nine Elms and the other London district sheds" when new. No. 209 was definitely at Nine Elms by March 1878, which at that point had 54 of the type - the others being in the Southern district (8); Western district (5) and under repair (18, presumably meaning at Nine Elms Works rather than minor repairs on shed).

    The March 1887 allocation has No. 209 being rebuilt at Nine Elms, i.e. the rebuild to tender engine. Presumably at some point after 1878 but before 1887 it must have ended up in the West Country in order to be seen on the train at Swanage. By that time, the Nine Elms allocation had disappeared (except for those under repair), with the class distributed widely across provincial sheds.

    When 209 was scrapped, the boiler passed to No. 44 of the same class; some of the new boilers from scrapped locos were used in the construction of new G6 shunting engines.

    (All info from Bradley).

    Incidentally, on the name of the class: up until the 1860s, LSWR locos generally only had names, no numbers, and classes were typically known by the exemplar engine of the type, i.e. the Bison class goods, Vesuvius class passenger loco etc. From the mid 1860s onwards, names gradually fell out of fashion, and a numbering scheme was instituted. Latterly, locos generally took the designation from the number of an exemplar loco; for example, the Adams 4-4-2T locos were the "415 class". For the Beattie Well Tanks, the normal name used was the "329" class but that may only have come into use by time most of the class had been scrapped and 329 was considered the exemplar; somewhat later the name morphed to the "0298 class" which is how they are generally known in modern times - that name, in any case, could not have been in use until after the leading 0 was added to the number in the later duplicate scheme, which was quite late. (No. 329 was photographed as duplicate 329 as late as May 1922, before becoming sequentially 0329 and then 3329).

    So the 0298 class is a relatively late class designation; it seems likely to me that at the date of the photo in the 1880s, the loco would probably have been known simply as a "Standard Well Tank".

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  11. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for explaining the derivation of LGRP. Much obliged.
     
  12. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

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    Tom,
    Many thanks for your research. I've just received my copy of Bradley's LSWR locos Vol 1 so am looking forward to reading what you've already posted and seeing if there's anything further mentioned elsewhere other than in the 'Well Tanks' section.
    It would appear that the date of the photograph must be after 20th May 1885, when the Swanage Branch opened, and before very early in 1887 as 209 was undergoing alterations in March 1887 at Nine Elms works for the tender to be added.
    Thanks again, Peter
     
  13. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    Normal practice was for the class "name" to be the number of the first built (and lowest number), so the Standard Well Tanks were the "177" Class. It didn't always work out that way: the Urie S15's were known as the "497" class, as 496 (lowest number) was the last built.
    Surely it was not a coincidence that the subsequent "177" Class was the O2, covering very similar work. Also worth a mention that the second 209 is, happily, still with us - as W24 Calbourne.
    From the "South Western Gazette" of June / August / September 1885 I have the following names:
    Mr Parsons - Agent, from Portland;
    Mr G Damen - Clerk, from Breamore;
    T J Jennings - Parcels lad, left in August;
    Mr Barnes - Porter, transferred to Twickenham in September.
    If they are of any help.
    Pat
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
  14. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

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    I have been frustrated in trying to get any copies of the South Western Gazette, let alone 1885 issues, so do envy you.
    I assume the names you quote are mentioned alongside reproductions of the photo at Swanage.
    Seemingly, from what you've written (as reported), it appears Mr Parsons was visiting Swanage from Portland although the other three names are new.
    Four figures were either uncertain or unknown by Mr Dowden in the November 1931 issue of the Southern Railway Magazine.
    So, in going from left to right, where do Messrs Damen, Jennings and Barnes fit in the line up please.
    Also, does the article(s) in SWG mention roughly/exactly when the photograph was taken please as there is some speculation regarding the exact date. It was not the opening train as there are no flags/bunting/crowds/Town Mayor/etc. It has to be before March 1887, however, as that was when Well Tank 209 was taken into Nine Elms for conversion to a Class 329 2-4-0 tender engine. A 22 month period.
    Any clarification would be gratefully received.
     

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