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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    An Appraisal presentation was made at the EA meeting on Saturday discussing amongst other idea's for the southern end whether it was feasible to get through to Pilton Yard without disturbing any of the neighbouring house's gardens which were once the track bed, I'm afraid to say a few years ago permission was granted to build more flats across the track bed at Gracie's yard, there are already retirement flats blocking access to the old Town station but im sure the biggest problem if these blocks of flats didnt exist would be crossing Pilton Causeway and Braunton road, Barnstaple is notorious for traffic jams, something no doubt caused by the amount of pedestrian crossings and the bright idea of having an inner relief road rather than a ring road so i dont think councillors would have let the railway run back to the Town station even if it were possible, ironically it seems the old civic centre is now to be demolished so had there been open minds at work a few years ago a new station on that sight could have been possible along with the possibility of the coombe rail link that people want to see. There is already more momentum building about a link back to Bideford hopefully it seems with the Tarka line running straight through
     
  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    From my visits over the last few years, I think the chances of the Town Council supporting extension of the railway past Pilton are vanishingly small, even if the District Council building goes altogether (when there in May, the rumour was that it would be lowered but not demolished). Whether the District Council, County Council or townsfolk of Barnstaple would welcome the disruption of the crossing is in my mind very debatable - especially when Pilton is hardly "out of town".
     
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  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: Barnstaple @Meatman I'm aware of the state of play on the east bank of the Yeo and of the road situation locally. My own thinking has been a bit more leftfield, and he only realistic solution I can see involves a joint approach to rail and road projects. I would say I see the chances of Ilfracombe Station ever reopening as close to zero as makes no difference, but am glad to hear there's still life in proposals west of Barnstaple.


    Fair comment. From the outside, it can sometimes be easy to imagine all local sentiment is anti railway, but the public planning meeting demonstrated the fallacy of that sort of thinking. My main concern is that we don't squander the local support which there is.

    Much of the anxiety in and around Parracombe seems to centre on the cars tourists arrive in and want to park somewhere close to where they're going. Living where I do, such concerns about are all too relevant every time the sun comes out, so I've a ready amount of sympathy on that score. Car drivers generally aren't best known for considerate behaviour. We've had thoughtless pratts blocking the entrance to my block's car park on a few occasions.

    Do we know if a "Killington Lane 2" solution has been looked at, 'one lane out' on one side or the other of Parracombe itself?

    Parracombe is the first real test for the L&B. Whilst it's the one village served by an intermediate station actually where it said it was (!!), it's not going to be the only Exmoor community which finds itself temporarily hosting the end of a working railway. I can see similar concerns being raised at Chelfham, albeit the community there is more diffuse and with even narrower roads.
     
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  4. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    im sure the idea is to go back only as far as Braunton
     
  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    By the time a railhead reaches Chelfham, I'd imagine that cars, as we know them, will be very different, ie. not owned, autonomous, pick up and drop off on demand. Probably not a bad thing.
    That's if we haven't all been nuked by then;)
     
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  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The last thing I saw floated was more like a tramway heading thataway. Ilfracombe (which was a windswept shadow of it's former self when I knew it, way back in the 60s) was spectacularly poorly placed (even worse than Ventnor), way above the town.
     
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  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Not something about which I have heard anything, but it may well have been mentioned somewhere along the way.

    You can't go south of Parracombe station 'cos of the trackbed issue, so it would have to be on the northern approach, where IMHO there will be even less room for anything and all rather pointless (no pun intended!) anyway. If the railway is going to have to 'make do' then surely it will be better to do so on the original station site - where the station can be retained once the line extends further southwards - than have to construct yet another 'temporary' station that will have to be removed later (as will be the case with KL).
     
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  8. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    Yes, they are attractive, and I think the later period darker red coaches on the stand looked very good, but maybe maroon rather than dark red. 7mm scale seems to me to be a practical compromise (for narrow gauge) between 4mm and 16mm to be able to include and appreciate representation of virtually all the detail. 4mm is small, and 16mm too big unless you have a big enough garden (and an accommodating family). At least to my way of thinking, having spent 60 years crawling over these coaches. The 'Open Centre' coaches are also being produced in the later darker red livery, so as Richard Webster confirmed to me at the gala, the cost of the extra tooling required to eliminate the division in the central panel and get the number in the right place on the original 1898-circa 1901 light terra cotta version was not justified. Regarding the lamp bungs, Richard had my drawings of an original (sitting in my room here), but an error came in production making them a scale 6 inches wide (he said) instead 8 1/2. Hence they look a bit too tall.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  9. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    You’re talking about Combe Rail, which plans for a light railway between Barnstaple & Braunton, with no intention of going anywhere near Ilfracombe with a railway although the other part of the project, and the bit that has seen some work towards taking place is the creation of a heritage railway trail between Ilfracombe and Willingcott where the cycle path is. Ironically part of Ilfracombe Station will live again as part of the trail as they plan to restore the station’s pedestrian access to its former glory. You are right about the location, high above the town, knowing Ilfracombe reasonably well it’s hard to see where else they could have put it as it’s a bit hilly round those parts!!!

    It was a shame the preservation scheme failed it would have made a brilliant heritage line, especially if it eventually had the cross platform connection to the L&B (which also gets us back on topic), but wasn’t to be - https://issuu.com/tarkaman/docs/north_devon_railway_company
     
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  10. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    page 3 ,a nice pair of Ivatts, maybe not L&B but a few stabled in Barnstaple and they were common on the Torrington-Hallwill junction line which was originally narrow gauge albeit 3'
     
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  11. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    ...but only the northern part until the ND&CJLR was opened in 1925 :)
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It was an amazing line. Unfortunately, my visits were on either DMMUs or (once) a Warship (from Exeter, IIRC). The transition to the 1:36 at the end of the platform was very noticeable, even without hearing diesel engines labouring away. A Light Pacific storming that gradient on the up ACE truly must've been a sight to behold.

    I'd imagine only the Folkestone Harbour branch (which I also encountered, though in CEP/BEP/CEP/MLV formations) was such a test of a footplate crew's skill.

    I missed steam on Talerddig Bank too damlit. Had to settle for pairs of Class 25s on the Shrewsbury-Machynlleth leg of the marathon from Euston to Barmouth, with only the single change at Mach.
     
  13. WhoKnows

    WhoKnows New Member

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    You are, perhaps unwittingly, agreeing with most of the objector comments. The average time to execute the run-around at KL is 9 minutes - from the time that the train stops to when it pulls out again. Add your estimate of an additional one or two minutes and we arrive at the "ten to fifteen minutes" estimated by the objectors. Remember that KL is completely isolated as compared to the situation at PH. 8 trains a day would mean 90 to 120 minutes a day with a "train-in-steam" at the end of your garden. L&BR need to show some empathy with local residents rather than just denying they don't have legitimate concerns.
     
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  14. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Sorry, but I do not see how. My point was that it would not take "10 to 15 minutes" just to turn an engine on a turntable. I quite agree that the residents may well have concerns which need to be addressed, but IMHO some of those concerns are misplaced and should be corrected. Having been to the area myself, and looking again at Google Earth, I can't see any property that is going to have a live steam engine at the bottom of their garden for 90-120 minutes a day. Certainly the TT (if installed) will be near to the cottage whose name escapes me (Rose? Ivy?) and there will be a brief pause of the engine close to Fairview when running-run at the WB end, but AIUI both those properties have changed hands since the planning consent was granted anyway.
     
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  15. WhoKnows

    WhoKnows New Member

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    I am afraid you are demonstrating very clearly that you are not familiar with the geography of the area. Five properties have gardens that are within about 25 metres of the Halt; there are others just a little further away. I would respectfully say that, as has been pointed out by others on here, your reliance on semantics demonstrates a reluctance to engage with real issues and concerns - namely how long will a train-in-steam be at PH. Furthermore, the planning consent you refer to that was granted in March 2018 was for a Halt on a continuous line to Blackmoor Gate, with a train being stationary for perhaps one or two minutes while passengers got on and off. The current planning application, which you should remember has not been granted yet, is entirely different in its impact on local residents.
     
  16. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    Fairview has changed hands for sure,they were supporters of the railway but now they are not, their version of events is posted within the S73 application, why Fairview was never pruchased as 'general managers house' we will never know
     
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  17. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    A section 73 is not a planning application, its an amendment to granted planning permission and in this case an amendment to attached conditions , i do wonder how a legal challenge can be made when a S73 is actually part of planning law, thats what its there for, if it was illegal then it simply wouldn't exist
     
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  18. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I quite agree, but with respect I would suggest that we are looking at different aspects. My concern has been with those objections which have been made on the basis of an inaccurate understanding of what is planned, such as the use of the TT. Also some objections - such as the supposed impact of vibrations from trains - ignore the fact that (a) such things will happen (if at all) even when trains are simply using PE as a Halt on an extended line to BR and (b) there were 'vibrations from trains' for the 37 years 1898-1935 which appear not to have done any harm. Beyond that, I suspect that we will have to 'agree to disagree'....
     
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  19. WhoKnows

    WhoKnows New Member

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    There are quite a few inaccurate statements in your post. I suggest you read the QC (now KC I presume) legal opinion that has been posted on the planning portal.
     
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    When doing so, it's worth considering the advice given on interpreting an opinion by David Allan Green in a different context (https://davidallengreen.com/2022/09...sed-products-on-the-nature-of-legal-opinions/). In particular, I'd draw attention to it being paid for by someone seeking a particular outcome - not a neutral document.
     
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