Ten for the National Collection?

Ok, I’ll swap for 251 and 8088.

 

Oi! Start you're own thread

I've nothing against diesels and electrics (No! Honestly!) But I don't think I have anything of much value to add; and to restrict it to ten across steam and diesel would just be to leave huge gaps; not to mention framing the ground rules (locomotives? Multiple units). The aficionados are welcome to start a thread in the relevant part of the forum

More seriously - I totally take the point about it being a railway museum. But you have to draw the scope in some how, and I chose locomotives. You could have an equivalent discussion on the ten most notable carriages, or wagons, or artworks, or anything else, but they would be different discussions, just as diesels are a different discussion.

Tom

 

I'd go for a double fairlie - you get the evolution of the bogie locomotive there too - no fairlie, no lcass 47!

 

I would include a narrow gauge loco just as I would include a broad gauge. The hard choice is which loco. I would exclude the fairlie as it is unique to the FR so not really representative of narrow gauge locos across the UK. I would give honourable mentions/consideration to including Princess as it is reasonably representative of narrow gauge locos in the UK but also the oldest, similarly Dolgoch as again representative but also its part in the story of the preservation movement. The other loco I would consider including is a quarry Hunslet for its role in the welsh slate industry. The one I would choose would depend on what story I was trying to tell/represent. Are you trying to show the development of the steam loco or show its importance to life in Britain over the years. A quarry Hunslet is representative of the importance of narrow gauge locos in industrial Britain. Dolgoch for the importance of preservation as part of the leisure/nostalgia industry for the past 60 years.

 

I hadn't intended to widen the scope of the discussion - if my brain had taken in the fact that we were talking specifically about steam locos I wouldn't have done so!

Steve B

 

It depends I guess, if the question is what ten loco s show best the development of steam power, or which ten loco s represent the role and development of the railways. I think the latter would need to reflect the average railway freight and local/branch line/ commuter traffic much more heavily than most of the selections above.

 

Thinking aloud .... How does one represent that branch line, without all the equipment which once connected it's 'pick-up goods' with the butcher, the baker and candlestick maker? You need a working museum, else cold static exhibits are closer to pictures on a page than any experience of how things once were.

 

So if it was me I would pick

1 King, Mallard, Duchess of Hamilton (peak of their respective companies)

2 Stirling 8 footer and MR compound (pre grouping)

3 A large Beyer Garrett (railway exports)

4 locomotion and rocket (early railway)

5 Evening star and a small tank engine maybe a pannier.

 

Surely that should be a 28xx in place of the Stanier 8F. The first 8F was built in 1935!

 

Using your criteria, I suspect that the 28xx would win hands down. You have presumably not heard of the Jellicoe Specials:

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2016/16-september/features/features/the-engines-of-war

These coal trains, powered by 28xx locomotives, transported about 45,000 tons of coal a week from Pontypool Road for the RN fleet at Scapa Flow.

I suspect that the reason that the 28xx didn't see actual military service is that they were just too valuable for use at home!

28xx locomotives also lasted to the end of steam on the Western Region in 1965.

 

Dead easy - assuming we're scrapping everything else and just keeping these ten, then Didcot is going to be vacant....

 

That depends how one defines "peak". Kings, A4s and Duchesses were all built in small numbers to work crack expresses. For value to the railway companies, their respective Class 5MTs were far more numerous and surely far more significant.

 

Not to mention that this measurement excludes the SR altogether - as do all of the other choices in that list.

 

OK .... keep members of the RH&D fleet with leading bogies. It'd take up a lot less room!

Interested to see @toplight's list specifies 'a big Garratt' .... I think the biggest here is the ex-SAR QL at MOSI .... so in the absence of either the ex-LMS or ex-LNE examples there's sound logic there and (in my books) the QL are/were about the very best ever, plus being a fine example of not just the manufacturing, but design capabilities of one of the UK's key manufacturers.

A tad worrying his post could be taken to imply 'our' ten might be the only steam locos left on the planet. Thank bob it's only a thought exercise. It is, isn't it?

 

Can I just remind all that the rules say “extant” locomotives. So they must still exist; this isn’t an exercise of saying what you wished existed. So “a large Beyer Garrett” - which one? One in SA / Zimbabwe maybe?

For absolute clarity of rules: British locos. That can encompass locos built in Britain but now abroad (so you can have the Swedish Beyer-Peacock from the 1850s). You can also have foreign-built locos that ran in Britain, so genuine S100s and S160s count - but remember, you only get ten choices.

Also, to help the thread along, choices with explanation is probably better than just a list with no context.

Tom

 

Thing is exhibits have to be iconic and glamorous, the most exciting of that era to provide appeal to the public. It is why lots of E type Jags and Porsches get restored and not many Austin 1100s.

A guy used to look know restored a Vanden plas Austin explaining that he wanted to preserve the deluxe best of the period not the ordinary.

Locos like 28xx, 8fs, black fives etc never have the same wow factor either to enthusiasts or the general public and plenty are preserved anyway.

The 10 need to be the Rosetta stone, Mona Lisa or Elgin marbles not the dull ordinary.

 

Can across one bloke who did up an Allegro. Worse .... a yellow Allegro, if you please. You'd think there would be some form of psychiatric help for such poor souls.

 

I disagree. That may once have been true but as steam is now only remembered in traffic by a minority of the population (you'd have to be 54 to have been born before the end of BR steam, and 60+ to remember it), different forces are now in play where even the once ordinary is exotic.

And that's where I find your linkage of Rosetta Stone to Mona Lisa and Elgin Marbles interesting. Because - and I've seen it - the Rosetta Stone isn't spectacular. It's interest is nothing to do with what it looks like, or how dramatic it appears, and everything to do with what it helps decode. And it's there that I find the emphasis on glamour misleading and mistaken - just as I find an aviation museum with lots of Spitfires but nothing else actually quite boring. So I'd gladly see workhorses like the Black 5 or one of the 2-8-0s part of the story - and believe they'd be attractions, not distractions.

If we're talking about the kernel of a national collection that has to bear the weight of the entire British steam railway locomotive history, and assume for the sake of argument that nothing else survives, it has to illustrate a range of history, not just the pinnacles. So I can see the case for Mallard, or a Duchess, or a King, or an MN - but only one of them, not all. Similarly, I can see the case for the Midland Compound, or one of the single wheeler classes, but not to the exclusion of what else was going on at that time. On the other hand, I like your idea of a Beyer Garrett, covering both export and (if the right one were chosen), narrow gauge history.