Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Hi, Chris, interesting you use a big valve to completely dump the vac. Our thoughts were more along the lines of a pass-com valve, where the vac is only lost enough to prevent the guard getting a full vacuum, when it's tested before each movement, so alerting them to there being a problem. What do other railways do?

 

TBH I'd imagine that percentage isn't much lower for most other heritage railways (and certainly it would be about that among the non-enthusiast community). The other question is whether, say you take 2 days a month that would, under current plans, be all steam, and change them so they have some diesel haulage - what effect would that have on the visitor numbers, not just on the day, but over the course of the month? Would it:
1) Bring them down, because people who would have come on that day for steam don't turn up?
2) Remain about the same, because people who would have come on that day for steam turn up on a different day when steam is running,
3) Increase, because 2 happens and you then appeal to a new clientele who want to see diesel running?

 

I don’t know about other railways but the NYMR experience is that a significant number of people will walk away if they find a diesel is at the front of the train, even though they have made the effort to get to the railway.

 

I think that all depends on the marketing/publicity for any proposed diesel days. Some places can be rather 'ad-hoc' as to when they'll do diesel-only days.

I can see, with the cost of coal and such skyrocketing, that a lot of places may end up going down this route - smaller lines/museums in particular need to adopt this approach.

If you have 200 people who will turn up to see steam and are running across two weekends, you divide your audience but double the cost. Running one of those two weekends with steam means you only have one round of high cost to cover and those who want the steam (let us say 180 of that 200) will come on that one weekend instead. Those who are simply interested in a train ride (as indeed such people do exist) will still come and ride if there is a DMU or diesel loco the second weekend which will have slightly lower costs to cover.

I'm not saying the Bluebell should/will adopt this approach; as people have said the USP is steam with vintage stock.

 

I think you have to be careful understanding costs. There’s more to loco costs than just coal; and more to operating costs than just the loco. My worry about an over-fixation on coal costs is it risks cutting income while not reducing operating costs anywhere near as much as people hope.

For many years, the annual coal bill at the Bluebell was 6% of the annual expenditure, and I heard similar figures from a number of other railways. Coal has gone up but so have many other costs, and I still don’t think the percentage figure would be very different. The railway spends more on electricity than it does on coal, I believe.

So keep an eagle eye on costs - absolutely. But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Tom

 

Would you be better organising a more focused diesel gala though, perhaps with a visitor or two (made simpler by the mainline connection)? That way you could target the marketing etc and try and reach some of the people for whom one diesel running alongside a primarily steam service might not be attractive enough.

 

I think this assumes people plan ahead and will all come on the steam weekend, as opposed to just doing something else!

In today's crowded leisure market can we risk not providing what visitors want (or even expect)? How many people don't pre-book, or at least decide at one or two days notice?

 

…or on the weather, or because the kids are bored. Whatever the question, the answer will always be to view what’s offered from the perspective of a first time customer with very limited attention span.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The latest issue of The Bluebell Times is now available to view for December

In this issue:

• A message of Christmas hope from the chaplain – and it is the railway’s annual carol service on publication day
• Could you be a Society Trustee? Details of two vacancies on the society board
• The Railway gives a magical night out at SteamLights for a group of Ukrainian families
• Catching up with one of our young volunteers
• The Night Ferry sleeping car departs for preservation in Belgium
• The Wickham trolley is overhauled from rail to roof
• The “giant” moves to Sheffield Park – and the rate of donations has doubled in a year.
• And much much more

The Bluebell Times is published monthly on the second Friday of every month. The next issue is due out on Friday, January 13th.

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/bluebell-times/

Tom

 

I was very pleased to see the plan to move "Sharpthorn" for display in SteamWorks. It's always bothered me that a significant loco like that hasn't really been given the place that it deserves - and it's not as if it takes up a lot of room!

Steve B

 

You have to try out new ideas to see whether they work or not! It's all too easy to say "too difficult/not viable" without any evidence either way.

 

Just catching up with this thread, so apologies if this is all old news now;
Firstly I'll note that I am no more than a very occasional Bluebell visitor (I've yet to travel north of Kingscote... that's how occasional) so my opinion probably counts for nothing.
But, I do regret the loss of the Bluebell's USP as the last "all steam" railway; I fully understand why that happened, and probably had to happen, but it was nevertheless a shame.
That said, a diesel loco or two as a "thunderbird" and for occasional works trains is a useful piece of kit. It's just not what I go to the Bluebell for.
But the Thumper... I would say bring it on, as a passenger I'd much rather travel in one of those, than in a vintage carriage hauled by a class 33. Because it's a different travelling experience, rather than the same experience with an engine I wasn't expecting.
If it allows an earlier first or later last train at EG (to connect with the national network) which would be impossible with steam rosters, disposal etc., then that surely is a good thing as punters could stay longer at the railway, and it doesn't need to mean any less steam mileage. Longer term, first train from EG-HK-Ardingly and then on branch shuttles until the last train back up to EG would seem like a good use of such a unit. Accepting of course that 3rd rail may have to wait a bit longer...
If one is available, with the right backing, I would say take it, because otherwise when Ardingly is eventually built there won't be anything suitable available apart from third-hand Pacers. And you really don't want one of those.

 

I'm so glad to see a Thumper finally coming to the Bluebell Railway. Hopefully it can be restored back to 1960's/1970's condition in due course and will no doubt prove a useful bit of kit for the early morning/late evening East Grinstead runs. It's great to see the Branch Line gala back in 2023 as the Bluebell has a fine collection of carriages to really pull this off well.

 

IIRC the Snowdon railway has a price premium for steam (or a diesel discount if you prefer)… perhaps that might convert a few people? Visitors who turn around without travelling and trains with empty seats feels like a worst case scenario…

Simon

 

Although having been on a few railways that run steam interspersed with 1960s DMUs there seems to be interest in travelling DMU one way, I guess it is a different experience whereas a rake of coaches hauled by a diesel is not as attractive as being hauled by steam.

 

Unlikely I’d suggest, the aim is very different. (I’d suggest at Snowdon most people just want a scenic ride to the summit and back). If you read the chairman’s articles over many issues, or what he said at the last Society AGM, the vision is very much a “railways through the ages” one. So the practical use of the Oxted unit would be an early morning service to EG, but would contribute to that vision, especially if we start to make more use of Horsted Keynes as a hub to change trains.

Tom

 

I can see the benefit of having an Sussex unit based on the line, once you have decided where you stable it, fuel it etc, ,Horstead Keynes would be better as long as there is platform space, or siding space, as it can then be put out of the way from other traffic, when not needed, So, Would any early morning service be HK to EG, and return to SP? followed by an ECS to HK? With a balancing later working from SP to EG returning as far as HK, ?

 

In particular, a passenger on a DMMU, with a view out of the cab windows, can see the steam train passing by. When riding on a steam hauled train, they cannot see their own train.

 

Tom,

The feature on Kai Grinstead is great and a great example of the sort of 'added value' that heritage railways can offer.

Also of course Kai was very brave talking about himself and how he felt

 

Snowdon is quite a unique case. They carry very few passengers per train and can't easily make the trains longer. What they have done is use less expensive traction and build lighter rolling stock so they can fit more people in. The steam service now carries about half as many people but they charge a premium. Snowdon is lucky it goes up a famous mountain. It is expensive and the rolling stock is poor. The visitor experience isn't especially great and unsprisingly it faces a lot of competition from an all steam service just the other side of the hill.

I'm not sure it is a model I'd be desperately trying to copy.