Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Out of interest (and not sure if there is any data behind this) - but on the Bluebell, where I guess there is a mix of open, corridor and compartment stock, is there any view as to what the general public prefer?

Of course I understand during Covid there was the desire to use the compartments of the Mets etc, but as things have settled down I wondered whether the desire was to continue to offer compartments or opens (Mk 1/Bulleids) etc?

 

Not done inadvertently at all. I really do shake my head at yours (and others) parochial views but up to now have hoped that you (and others) would move on. Referring to 'normals' as you do I really do despair.

 

I suppose it depends on whether said public are there for just an average plain old vanilla day (learnt that saying when I volunteered there) or something specific like a Victorian Christmas event.

If you are their for said normal day then I would think that the use of open stock would be ideal as people then can move about the train, either for the buffet car, park bikes or store buggies.

But for specific events, then the whole ambience of travelling back in time when smaller coaches and smaller engines would definitely like travelling in compartment stock, more of a curiosity too.

Also does depend on what the public want to see as well - Are they there for a big train (in which open stock is better) or a small train (in which case compartment stock is better).

 

Ever tried recruiting a coded welder? Yes, there are welders out there, but there's far fewer here than in more industrial areas of the country.
In C&W we have three people who weld (all on the full time staff, one having been Bluebell-trained), and probably over 30 who do woodwork.

 

I don't know about passenger preference - but we currently have two open Mk.1s on loan to the KESR, whilst the corridor set running for Santas and SteamLights is formed of 5 coaches of side-corridor compartment stock plus the wheel-chair accessible saloon. This includes three CKs and a BCK, so a relatively high proportion of first-class accommodation, which is very popular at Christmas.

 

Is a coded welder necessary for every piece of work? I wouldn't think so.
On the flipside, if you need a hardwood solebar, or other carriage-length piece, what is the lead-time on that?

(And if the answer is "no need for a solebar, it's on a CCT chassis", then you are just waiting for a welder ten years down the line)

 

I note you do not currently volunteer. Has this always been the case?

 

A personal observation on KESR when they run A train of mix between vintage and later stock there always seems to be a good take up of the seats on the vintage part of the train. At a rough guess about 50/50 split .

 

This is an interesting point - as I’ve often felt that the teak set on the SVR, though clearly greatly valued by them and the owners, is a little wasted as it never sees LNER traction except when hired-in locos arrive for special events.

Equally, I’m grateful for the lack of a GWR presence on the NYMR and KWVR (TVR 85 does not count!). But as you say, it is preference.

 

With respects whatever is on my profile (which I note you must have looked at) is what I chose to put on there. No-one ever asked me to tick a box to say this was correct!! Like some on here I have lurked for many a year, keeping my council........but because of yours and a few others constant moaning/whinging/I'm right etc etc I've eventually bitten. Most (nearly all) of us just get on with it, and ignore the absolute drivel that is posted on here by some, but on occasion...............

 

Temper Temper

 

I see no sign of temper in Springs Branch’s post, far from it.

 

I can assure you ,whatever your rose tinted glasses think ,that with regards passenger satisfaction and railway incomes etc he has forgotten more than you will ever know .

 

Hardly, either literally or figuratively. Sorry to disappoint.

 

From the commercial department, increasingly there seems to be a preference for compartment stock for "special" events - Santas, SteamLights etc are primarily sold per compartment, rather than per seat.

For example, the two Santa sets were:

East Grinstead:

• 394/368/412/387 (Mets)
• 3363 (Birdcage brake)
• 1098 (100 seater)
• 7598 (Brighton first)

Sheffield Park (also acted as Steamlights train):

• 404 (brake van / generator vehicle)
• 5768 (Bulleid corridor composite; 7 compartments)
• 25728 (Mark 1 corridor second, 8 compartments)
• 4941 (Mark 1 open saloon; half open seating; half wheelchair-accessible salon)
• 16210 (Mark 1 corridor composite; 7 compartments)
• 16012 (Mark 1 corridor composite; 7 compartments)
• 21246 (Mark 1 brake corridor composite, 5 compartments)

So apart from the wheelchair accessible vehicle 4941, that is all compartment stock, of four different generations. (Late Victorian; Edwardian / early SR; late SR; BR).

I've heard it said that coach parties prefer open carriages, but whether that is the coach party operators's preference; or the railway's preference to be able to reserve one open carriage on a train when a coach party is due, I don't know. Possibly a bit of both.

Tom

 

The other complexity is loco provision, and load limits.

Fenchurch, for example, will I think be limited to 80 tons. That puts the Mets in scope; I think it could also do a six coach set of four wheelers (i.e. the four that exist, plus the two currently under overhaul). But the three coach SR set (1098 / 7598 / 3363) is about 90 tons and might be beyond a reasonable limit; likewise a three coach Maunsell set. It would easily manage 3363 / 1098 which is quite high capacity, but has no first class (though second class in 3363 is very luxurious). There's no wheelchair provision in any of that lot, so it could only really be a second train, not the only train of the day.

The O1 (and H) when restored are allowed 150 tons, which is four modern carriages with some in hand, or conceivably could be 5 pre-grouping bogie carriages. (The O1 took the SteamLights set - which must be something like 230 tons - to Horsted Keynes on a few occasions during Santa, but only as far as Horsted, not up to East Grinstead which is a considerably harder section to work. And even so, I doublet think you'd want to do it all the time with a loco coming up to 130 years old).

The other locos can all essentially haul trains that are bigger than our platforms allow, so no difficulty, though for preference the Q is limited to five coaches, but will easily take 6 all the way to Grinstead if required.

I think a four coach set of Maunsell's comprising brake, 1st and 3rd class, with a mix of compartments and open seating, would be really useful; and if the O1 / H load limit was relaxed to, say, 160 tons, then that set could be strengthened as required with 1098 without needing to get out a bigger loco. Wheelchair access in a Maunsell would increase the usefulness of that sort of set.

Tom

 

What about early (non-aircon) MkIIs? Are any of those to be had, and what would they be like for long-term maintenance?

 

God, I hope not …

In any case, they wouldn’t meet the terms of the Society’s objectives, so I think should be strongly resisted as dilution.

Tom

 

I didn't mean for the Bluebell in particular but for any railway that might be struggling for serviceable coaches.