Bluebell Railway General Discussion

What sort of length goods trains would have run over the Bluebell in the preservation era?

 

Presumably you mean in pre-preservation era?

In the LB&SCR and SR era it appears that the pattern was a bit complex, but in effect there was a daily goods working along the whole Lewes - East Grinstead line in each direction serving the intermediate stations; in addition a service from Haywards Heath that terminated at Horsted Keynes, in order to serve Ardingly. In addition, at various times express freights used the line so as to keep clear of the Brighton mainline, but without serving the intermediate stations.

The complexity was because trains didn't necessarily run straight through (branch line working is always more complex than the modellers would have you believe, especially in Southern England where branch line termini were actually rare, but lots of minor cross-country junction-to-junction lines existed). For example, at one point there was a service that ran Brighton (or later Newhaven) - Lewes - Horsted Keynes - Haywards Heath and return; and met a service that ran Three Bridges - East Grinstead - Horsted Keynes and return, wagons being swapped at HK. By 1921 the swapping point was Kingscote; Klaus Marx speculates that may have been due to the maximum northbound loadings, though I'm not entirely sure I follow his logic. In any case, the notable point was that the maximum loading north of Kingscote was 40 wagons, and Marx suggests that at that time trains may have frequently met that limit. Given the biggest LBSCR goods locos at the time were the K class mogul, and more likely the services would have been behind an 0-6-0 C2x or similar, that must have been a hard slog.

The goods yard ledgers survive for Sheffield Park for the period November 1899 - March 1900. Those indicate an average of as many as 16 wagons dealt with daily at Sheffield Park in that period, or about 1,000 tons per month. 90% of the incoming wagons were LBSCR; 3.6% private owner, and the remainder from, in order, the MR, LNWR, GNR, SECR, NER, GCR, NSR and GER. Of the 702 wagons dealt with in that period, 95 were single or double bolster wagons, no doubt serving the wood yard at Sheffield Park. By contrast, milk traffic from the dairy at that time was conveyed by passenger trains.

From that high point, things declined. There are a few illustrative photos in Marx' book from the BR era, including an E4 on a train of what looks like 11 wagons + brake van (1949); a C2x on a similarly sized train (1950) and, tellingly, a C2x on a train of only three wagons a few weeks before initial closure.

Give or take the cleanliness of the stock, I think the photo I linked above of the E4 on a train of about ten wagons is probably a very good representation of the later era, except we really need one of the smaller four wheeler brakes for maximum realism rather than the Queen Mary. But the QM is such an operationally useful vehicle in other respects!

Tom

 

The other way to move the guards van from one end of the train to the other at a terminus is - run loco round train, pick up guards van, take guards van round loop and leave in head shunt, run loco back round train and push train onto guards van.
This avoids having to propel the train over facing points, or pull it out of the station area beyond the home signal.

 

Confirmed on the Bluebell’s Facebook that it will indeed be Fenchurch hauling the trains during half term. I assume it will be the SR livery pre-grouping set, not the Mets. 3363 is exquisite though!

(Apologies for image of text rather than text - can’t seem to copy from Facebook).



Tom

 

Ordered a couple of Rapido wagons from the Goods Division shop shortly after you posted this - and they arrived today. That's better service than most big shops!

 

My 3 wagons have just arrived. Great service and helping a good cause.

 

It'll be nice to run a super-long goods train with the 9F once the giant has awoken, but the aim really is to have three sensible-length goods trains available - one pre-grouping, one Grouping-period, and one early BR. Compared to most heritage lines, where we're short of vehicles is curiously the BR-period, so painting some of our post-war LMS stock in BR livery is probably the way forward.

 

This seems to have slipped under the wider radar for alot of people.
weekly_update_030223.pdf (bluebell-railway.co.uk)

Seems not just the Severn Valley in a spot of bother. The problem as always the first one to put their head above the wall gets its shot off.

 

I've been reading the first of the weekly updates from Paul Churchman on the website. Quite few bits about reducing costs around things like electricity and some services etc, as well as reviewing some of the Events, with the Diesel Gala no longer going ahead and will be replaced by Giants of Steam instead.

Given the need to cut costs, I assume that the Summer Steam Gala in July will move to the Autumn and become GoS, as well as replacing the Diesel gala?

Edit: Southernman99 has just posted the update above as I was writing.

 

So just to be clear:
NO Diesel Gala
NO Summer Gala.
GoS instead.

Anyone know the dates and when this will be officially announced?

 

There is a great deal more of this to come. Everyone faces the same issues. Some feel it earlier than others will. It is not the end, nor even the beginning of end, but there will be struggles ahead before we once again reach the sunlit uplands. (With apologies to WC).

 

The movement of the Summer Steam Gala to the Autumn and becoming Giants of Steam is purely speculation on my part at this present time, based on the need for cost saving mentioned throughout the update, as well the possibility of having 2 galas fairly close together either side of Scotsman's visit and with the possibility of another steam restriction/ban if we have a similar summer to last year.

It is worth noting though that the Bluebell did state that more 2023 events could be announced further down the line (the Diesel Gala initially being one of them).

 

It’s also worth remembering that last year many lines struggled to hire in visiting locos for Galas that offered an interesting draw for the enthusiasts but didn’t break the bank - or simply couldn’t find anything suitable that was available and not needed by their home line.

 

Times may be difficult but it looks as if least the Chairman thinks keeping people well informed is a key element and will hopefully have everyone pulling together. Dunkirk spirit from all comes to mind.

 

Indeed. An object lesson to far too many other managements.
Pat

 

Not only is the replacement of the Summer Gala with an autumn Giants of Steam pure speculation, but it is totally unfounded - the announcement was that a tentatively planned Diesel Gala will not take place in the Autumn, and GoS will run in its place. No suggestion of not running the Summer Gala.
Galas on the Bluebell make money (which means making more money than an ordinary weekend, although we had a diesel gala I think which didn't), so no reason or sense to cut one as a cost saving measure! Had the planned diesel gala come off, it would have made money, but without the particular hoped-for diesels, would be very much more risky, which I think is why it's been swapped out for GoS.

 

Has been widely distributed - to all Bluebell volunteers via HOPS (assuming they've managed to get registered - we've only just switched over to it), on the Unofficial Bluebell Facebook group (which is the enthusiast/volunteer-facing rather than the 'official'- i.e. customer facing - group) as well as on the web site Blog. Paul's stated intention is to be totally open about the challenges the Bluebell faces, which is a refreshing change.

If there's a single heritage railway in the country that claims to be avoiding the triple whammy of the huge increase in fuel and energy prices, the general increase in all other costs, and the visiting public drastically cutting back on discretionary spend as the recession starts to bite, then they're probably not being honest. Or have someone with a lot of money funding them.

 

I think you will find there are several railways that have announced belt tightening already, but the SVR seems to be taking the most drastic action of them at present, others seem to be a bit more measured in their approach but a very much let's watch and see what happens as the year unfolds. Bluebell to me appear to be in that latter group.

 

Good to see my assumption is completely wrong, looking forward to attending an additional event to go to this year.

 

I am pleased to report that we have been shortlisted in two categories in the Heritage Railway Association’s Annual Awards:

• LB&SCR ‘Terrier’ No. 72 ‘Fenchurch’ is one of four finalists for the Coiley Award for Steam Locomotive Engineering.
• SR Bulleid Open Wagon No. 12058 is one of just three Carriage & Wagon projects in contention for the Morgan Award for Rolling Stock Preservation.

The award winners will be announced on 11 March.