Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

As ever Tom makes very good points in his post (6938) but I do regret that he has dismissed my post on p344 #6880 which, in total, suggested what the problem (s) might be and made reasoned - possible, suggestions for a way forward.
Such is the nature of internet forums they do give a voice to a wide range of opinions and suggestions but often, sifting through them, we gain a greater awareness of the difficulties and possibilities.

 

Exactly right. I agree with everything that @Jamessquared has said. Some many people are commenting and critising without knowing the facts. It would seem that some critics are not members and bemoan the lack of information - which they would get if they joined. Others seem to have a particular axe to grind. Others come up with hairbrained ideas which are unworkable. Most of us want to see some progress toward the objective of having a longer L and B but don't have all the facts to be able to suggest the best way forward.

 

'm interested in the ideas but disinclined to support them for three reasons. One is simply the impact of a split organisation - the parallel histories of GCR and GCR(N) show how difficult that can be to handle. The second is that the use of the railway as a prototype laboratory/showcase simply doesn't fit within the "recreate the L&B" model. The third, and most important, is that having driven the back lanes that the railway follows (sort of) between Blackmoor Gate and Snapper, the road access to the historic stations varies between poor and appalling.

 

I think this is the key one for me, though I agree about the back lanes too.

 

Sorry, James, 'onlinery' is already out there!!

 

That is the reason why rebuilding the line between Snapper and Blackmoor is practically a non starter until you can gain some sort of access point at the Barnstaple end of the project.

Chelfham, Bratton Fleming and Exmoor Zoo (the old railway did have plans to build a halt at Hunnacott Farm which as it turns out would not have been that far from the current Zoo site) will be great stop off points along the line for people wanting to explore the area.

The thing is weather the old railway was built as a toy of the rich of the day or as a political pawn to stop the GWR reaching Lynmouth with a new branch line, doesn't come into the equation today.

There are two main reasons why this needs to happen 1) North Devon needs a project of this size to kick start the local economy and 2) North Devon is a popular tourist hot spot, but the place is dying on its feet with a lack of investment.

 

Thanks 35B.
You are quite right about the difficulties of split organisations but, nevertheless, there are two operating sites, which are getting joined.
Yes, I suggested the EV railcar as a method of getting a relatively low cost, easy to operate, running system which is environmentally friendly. (A crunched Tesla and L&B looking coach body should not be "too" expensive as per the NER railcar style). It is a temporary solution until end "run arounds" are established.
I know the roads are poor which is why I suggested possibly a minibus connecting between the sites, or, might there be space away from the stations for a park and ride?
Again, we all want to see a recreated L&B, but by showing (As Woody Bay does) the benefits and steady growth, where we can, we are more likely to keep the local support which is so essential.
Whilst it is all to easy to criticise on these forums, I prefer to make positive suggestions, which may or may not be deemed practical for all sorts of reasons.

 

how do you know he wasn't the first

 

Not convinced by that actually, I think it sets the current equation - because it gave us the route that we got, and the lack of integration with the settlements along the way, which led to its failure the first time around.

I'd agree that it doesn't necessarily help solve the problems, but it (IMO) does help even now in the 21st century, explain how we ended up with some mind bending challenges.

Realistically, in a perfect world, it would have made much more sense to start from Lynton or from Barnstaple*, and then buy up bits in between as and when they came on the market (so actually that bit of the current strategy makes sense). But the point I suppose was that Woody Bay came up for sale and was the catalyst to actually getting on with some rebuilding. So we are where we are.

*it always strikes me as if the SVR had started from Hampton Loade - extensions planned north and south and. oh dear, someone's severed the line at Bridgnorth for the bypass... that's without even having to deal with multiple trackbed owners, which is the real challenge for us in North Devon.

 

With respect Phil, there's a massive difference in having a restoration group at Chelfham working on the buildings and having an operational railway at the site.
The minibus idea requires several volunteers to commit to being taxi drivers on operational days (effectively not working on the railway) and then there's the cost of buying, maintaining and fuelling a minibus, all those costs would severely reduce the farebox profit.

 

Hi Keith
Good points, but if the railway is to grow, then the team at Chelfham will need to have an operational railway at some time. I would suggest that the minibus and driver would be hired for specific operating days rather than an "in house" vehicle. This cost would be factored in as part of the operation/fares.
I know people have commented before about the problems of more sites, but there are several sites in a small area of N Wales which shows a working reality.

 

I would be careful about both those arguments. From people I know in the Barnstaple area, I'm well aware that the local economy has many problems. One of those is the dependency on tourism, and the combination of low wages and seasonal jobs.

The L&B would be a boost to the economy, directly and by acting as a multiplier. However, it will reinforce the dependency on tourism while not being anything like big enough to support the burden of "kick starting the local economy".

 

exactly - 'have some more seasonal tourism to deal with the problem that the only employment is seasonal tourism, oh and by the way, you're dying on your feet.'

That's a bit like when Kidderminster comes in for criticism. I'm allowed to, I grew up there for the first 19 years of my life. My dad has even more right, he still lives there. But it gets my our/back up when non-locals do it! Even if/when (actually particularly if/when) they're objectively right... Which is why, as a non-local to North Devon - though I did one live in Devon for 6 years so I'm not a total holiday maker/hobbyist wrt to the county - I'm really sensitive to local opinion with regard to the L&B. I want to rebuild the L&B because it is a passion of mine. Other people, who live there, either have it way down their list of priorities or indeed not on it. Tread carefully I suppose.

 

What you have said is fair comment and as for strategic road map, as I have said before you simply can't put one together as we have tried years ago and it did not work, the reason I say this is we are dealing with over 100 landowners which some support us and other don't then you get some that want top dollar for the land.

So if someone does not want to deal with you your plans go up in smoke and you need to look elsewhere along the project

A road map could only work for the L&BR if you are dealing with just one owner such as Network Rail. But it doesn't and so there is only one way to rebuild this line and that is to buy the trackbed as and when it is offered to you or you have the resources to make an offer. This approach has been done successful tried and tested by Exmoor Associates up until now and there are a number of people who feel that the L&BR Trust should also be following that policy.

There are to my knowledge at least two may be even three landowners that have said yes to selling their trackbed to the Trust. Yet the reason why this has not happen is because none of the land falls into the section that is the focus of attention. IE- Blackmoor - Woody Bay nothing has been done to secure it but a concern is that it could change hands before we reach it. Sure we can all say on here what we think needs to be done and by whom, it is not always that easy at the top of a tree like the L&BR. But the Trustee are I feel still trying to do to much yet we all agree we have the various experts or volunteers willing to help but the offers are never taken up.

For what it is worth I don't think a total length servery has every been carried out along the entire trackbed to find out exactly was issues there are to overcome in rebuilding the railway from one end to the other, if it was, then it might just focus everyone minds on just what is possible or not.

You will never rebuild this railway on income alone. So you also have to approach the fundraising effort in a different way. When I have asked in the past what the fundraising strategy was the answer was we are working on it, I have offer my help if they want it but no one has come back to me on this.

One of the things which is difficult to judge and that is you never know when a piece of trackbed is going to come up for sale. So you have to have some way of having money in the bank when that happens, sadly I think this is one area which has not been developed in the whole 40+ years of the existence of this group, so this is not a unique problem for this current group of Trustees. I am aware that the charity commission don't look to kindly on charities with large deposits in the bank

One thing I do know about this group is for some reason each successive board of Trustees don't appear to take on board the mistakes or lessons learned from previous teams, this to me shows that there is not a governance system in place, if there was, things would be totally different and we would not be having this conversion now.

Sure we can all take our eyes of the ball, as none of us are perfect and this discussion only touches on the information that we know about. But what if there was something else going on that the membership was not aware of, but it could have some major repercussion for the project if it where know about. Just how would you feel?

For me trust is everything, if you don't have trust then most relationships fall apart. Simple.

 

Yes Chelfham, Snapper, Bratton Fleming, Parracombe and Caffyns may all eventually (hopefully) get their railway back, but as has been mentioned before, due to the narrow lanes and complete lack of parking, I would foresee them as being request stops only with no tickets sold at those stations.
Adding the cost of a minibus to the fare at Woody Bay and say Chelfham is going to be an expensive day out for families. Sorry!

 

I actually agree with much of this - though a full-line survey would in itself be problematic where you've got people who won't let you onto their land - so the survey would inevitably end up with multiple 'don't know, it's an unknown' lurking on it. Not sure I'd have worded it quite the same, but it's mostly a reasonable assessment IMO. I say that only because (and the problem may well be me) I reckon I usually disagree with your posts! I don't mean that last bit to be offensive by the way, I just usually don't.

The bit in bold though, is like the inverse of the South Sea Bubble (which has already been alluded to on this thread) - my comment back would be 'what if there wasn't?'

Unless you are suggesting that there actually *is* something, in which case I think better to spell it out rather than just darkly cast aspersions.

 

the rugby club's quite good - that's not remotely going to solve any problems, but I keep waiting for them to get promoted to National 1 so I've got another reason to visit!

 

Whilst the L & B will not in its-self create a lot of full time jobs, there would be some - which is better than none I would have thought. Also having a vibrant L & B would attract quite a few more visitors and Santa Specials broaden the "Season". Which again benefits the area.