7027 Thornbury Castle

I think the fundamantal difference here is that the resoration of 7027 had started and was proceeding apace. I don't know exactly how far on it was but connnecting rod forgings and much else had already been procured. It is abandoning that project that I am disappointed with.

 

Just to note that Maindy Hall was specifically bought for the conversion with that intention clearly declared and publicised. There was no subterfuge and at the time it was thought that only a few more locos would leave Barry before the rest were scrapped.

 

12" to the foot kitbashing is something the GWR indulged in from about the 1850s onwards.
And the Std 8 and Std 7 boilers have a relationship very close to that between the Hall and the Saint.
Technically its quite sensible and a big improvement on some of the more half baked proposals that have previously emanated from the 4709 group.

But the technical is only a part of the story of any project.

I think the 4709 group has behaved very foolishly in political terms, and its striking that the most recent GWS magazine has no mention of the project. And apart from the politics they only had to wait for a couple of years of it being back in a headshunt under a tarpaulin eating up storage costs and they would have got the pieces rather cheaper and with rather less fuss. If the alternative to being taken apart was the scrap man things might have looked rather different.

 

I'm not saying that what is being done to 7027 is commendable in any way, but imho it is understandable. I can't see that the situation has changed much from 4942 - "There was no subterfuge and at the time it was thought that only a few more locos would leave Barry before the rest were scrapped." I don't see that there was any subterfuge involved in the 4709 bid and with restoration efforts having ground to a halt at an early stage and, with no obvious prospect of continued funding, no short- or medium term prospect of restoration to working order. Personally, I'd prefer to see 4709 progressing rather than see 7027 remain an abandoned hulk. Chacun a son gout!

 

A couple of years to many enthusiasts would significantly reduce the chances of them seeing the outcome !

 

Hall and Saint are No 1 boiler, so are similar. The 47xx boiler is 5'-6" diameter at the front, the Castle boiler is 5'-2" diameter at the front. Hardly similar.

 

Or, some might say a difference in diameter of 6%. Added to that they're both round and boiler shaped. Similar by the fact to be similar by definition is to not be identical.

 

The Std 8 was directly developed from the Std 7. Same Firebox, same barrel length, smaller diameter barrel to save weight.
The Hall was directly developed from the Saint. Smaller diameter wheels.

 

I too was very disappointed that the project was abandoned . The fundamental difference here is that it wasn't the 4709 /GWS/Didcot chaps who abandoned it, despite what some seem to want to believe. The 4709 project was not one of my favourites but I can see that it may well succeed now with this unexpected opportunity to save huge amounts of money and time. Wisely the new custodians gave others a chance to put up or shut up. Could we now move on please?

 

I think things will only move on when there’s a little more transparency from those at the top about what’s going on at Didcot.
I don’t think it’s an unreasonable question to ask if I chuck a tenner to the GWS, where’s it going? Is it to 4866? 5051? Is going towards carriage and wagon work? The shed roof? Or is it going towards a group that take their inspiration from what they failed to underline in their 1957 Western Region ABC?

 

I wonder if all the posters on here who swear that they will never even set eyes on this monstrosity of a steam loco Leta lone ride behind it, will be taking the same stance with those wooden bodied Frankenstein coach's cobbled together
on heavily butcherer underframes from vehicles that deserved to be restored in there own right but were scrapped with little thought for what future generations of preservationist would think of this wantern vandalism.
Personally I'm quite looking forward to seeing a 47xx as I never saw one as they where all withdrawn by 1964 and I've seen and ridden behind several castles. so hopefully this project will now be completed while I'm still around to enjoy the sight.

Colin

 

Whataboutery is so wearying. Of course there are vehicles that deserve to be restored in their own right and many of us obviously volunteer to support them, or fund them. How is that relevant to the thread?

There are two things in railway preservation that irritate most of late. The “what about x” line of discussion that you could aim at literally any topic, and the idea that a thread focusing on one topic must somehow take into account everything else.

For what it’s worth, one of my great regrets is that some Thompson vehicles have been cut up in preservation for other projects. I could do absolutely nothing about it at the time, and it still rankles. But it is done. We can’t go back in time and stop it happening now.

 

Perfectly reasonable, and very easy to manage. There are separate funds for pretty much all these things, so just direct your tenner at the one you want to support.
See https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/section.php/5/1/make-a-donation
These are the priority appeals on the GWS website.
1466 Restoration Fund
Didcot Small Locomotive Restoration Fund
Didcot Development Fund
Restoring the Dreadnought
Water Tower & Coal Stage Conservation Project

 

One could argue there is a degree of hypocrisy if organisations that sacrifice long wheel base and 6 wheeled parcel and freight stock in order to provide chassis for carriages that lost their own a century ago are praised, but organisations that do pretty much the same thing with a locomotive are castigated. Arguably this is even more the case if all the bile is directed at one organisation, and not others who do much the same thing.

 

I suggest that rolling stock is very much the poor relative in Preservation

 

That's still whataboutery Jim, sorry. It's not the best tactic for debates. Leave that as the main preserve of Westminster, quite frankly...

 

Informative, thank you Jim.

 

But you won't be seeing a 47xx, you will be seeing some sort of hybrid of a Castle boiler on a 47xx chassis. I know that's being a pedant, but its the sheer oddness/hypocrisy of the whole GWS stance when it suits them is just frankly peculiar. They spent a fair bit of unnecessary cash (and made a big deal) of getting 2999 as accurate as they could down to details such as tapered buffers (And other things that I no doubt have forgotten), but in the next breath to save a few quid they are piddling about with fundamental things like boilers to cobble things together for both the County and the 47xx, either do things accurately or don't.

As @Jimc noted earlier in the thread, the complete silence regarding the project in recent Echo's is rather odd, albeit understandable, and the silence in the letters pages also draws the eyes a little...

 

To be truthful I doubt if most people, other than railfans, will know of any irregularities with 4709 or even care. It is only the few that are fortunate to have been familiar with the locomotive or have some engineering knowledge that will probably know. I do recall seeing them in Warwickshire in the early 1950's prior to moving to Devon. But that is only a memory from a long time ago.
Books can tell you a lot but they have been known to be inaccurate as various locos of a class have differences and memory often plays tricks.