SVR General Discussion

The Daily Mail article can be found here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...taken-service-Gen-Z-passengers-use-doors.html
A bit sensational but to be honest is fairly accurate, the headline a little misleading of course. I've said elsewhere on this forum that I got confused by the GW locks before, and I'm a millennial enthusiast in my early 30s. It's what I'd expect from the press (not least these days) though does not fully paint the SVR and heritage lines in general in the best light as you may assume from the headline. It does include some quotes from SVR staff.

The Severn Valley Railway's health and safety manager, Richard Morris, said 'There have been some events where the Great Western carriage doors have been found to be open on arrival at stations or mid-section (while train is moving). Lack of awareness from a younger demographic of visitor and ever increasing pressure from the rail regulator means the railway has to be proactive.'
The Great Western train may have to put extra staff onboard in future and improve the checking process before the trains depart.
In the longer term the locks on the trains could be modified so that they lock as they slam, but the railway said: 'The cost of making modifications could be considerable, as more than 140 doors are affected.'
The railway's press office added: 'The railway is exploring a number of options, which include putting extra staff onboard trains and improving the checking procedures for carriages before departure.'

A member of staff involved in the maintenance of carriages at the Severn Valley Railway said: 'The Great Western set has a higher number of issues compared to the other carriages.
'That is not saying the other carriages, i.e. slam locks, are not without fault. They have a lower incident rate due to the overall design of the lock mechanisms with built in safety catches.'
He continued: 'Part of the conversation (regarding the reintroduction of the carriages) has been the training of guards, travelling ticket inspectors, platform staff and catering stewards – how we train them, how we assess them, and their accountability.'

A railway volunteer added: 'The incident rate from the Great Western set has spiked during the previous two year period for a couple of reasons.
'Firstly the Great Western set was never used during mid week operations due to the lower number of platform staff available.
'Secondly the Great Western set was used a lot during Covid mid-week operations, as that was the set with the most compartment stock. Coupled with the poorer understanding of how traditional doors and locks work and it's all a sticky mess of a situation.'

Also talks about the GCR because of the incident at Loughborough station. Written in a sensationalist way that makes them sound much worse than they were, but one cannot argue these things did not happen:
The Great Central Railway has suffered a number of high-profile accidents in recent years including a steam train, which was derailed after passing a red signal, and a diesel running away for many miles without its driver before crashing into carriages.

Anyway, hope the photographers who's photos are used got something for their work.

 

I think Bluebell have started doing this again although it I mentioned in Chairman's notes can't find it on website

 

This would need clarifying but I am guessing that you sourced this information from Companies House and therefore on public record.

• Paisley Flour Corporate. Liquidation https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10928578
• Paisley Flour Weddings Ltd. Liquidation https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10928323
• Passey Food Ltd (previously known as Paisley Flour Events). Active https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13756688
• Paisley Flour Corporate Ltd. Dissolved. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09058381

Restructuring of entities can often involve creation of new companies and dissolution of others. I would have thought, or rather hoped, that the SVR undertook due diligence before commissioning Paisley Flour, and were satisfied with their financial status and ability to trade.

 

I’m sure @Matt37401 will have far more knowledge of the issues than me, but I think for the last year or more, a significant constraint in Bluebell catering has been availability of suitable staff. There’s a national shortage, and given that heritage railways tend not to be the best payers, and often - at least in our case - tend to be in slightly remote locations, it can be a struggle to recruit. Put bluntly, as with many paid roles on heritage railways, you typically have to really specifically want to do the job - if you just want an equivalent role in the industry, there will generally be better paid, more easily accessible jobs elsewhere.

I believe that is one of the main reasons why at the Bluebell, we are only releasing details of catering services at fairly short notice (a few months) because of not wanting to promise something we can’t deliver. Go back 5 or 10 years pre-covid and pre cost-of-living crisis and the main dining trains were set out basically up to a year ahead in the annual service plan, with maybe some extras fitted in according to demand (weddings, charters etc). That old certainty has gone at the moment.

Tom

 

The NYMR is seeing a similar situation. The evening North Yorkshire Moors Pullman used to be a weekly offering but has now all but disappeared because of staffing.

 

I think there are many reasons at the moment Tom, I think Covid brought things to a head with some people deciding to change career and leaving the industry, throw in other factors like anti social hours, wages not increasing and prices going up, bad management, (rather interesting in a small city like Cambridge word soon gets around about who are good and bad employers)
I can imagine with the Bluebell and NYMRs relatively isolated locations then that’s another consideration, if in a city like Cambridge we’re struggling then I’m not surprised that what yourself and @Steve say is correct.

I’m finding that it’s no surprise that those who look after their staff are doing better than those that don’t.
As @Paul42 mentioned regarding his local pub manager/Landlord regarding price increases to pay wages I’ve heard this a few times recently from several pub and bar managers regarding a certain type of customer (usually someone who’s only happy when they have something to complain about) The same answer has been from different people given that these staff are decent and they know they have to be properly paid a decent wage.
Isn’t there a saying about paying peanuts and getting monkeys?

 

I'm not surprised. There's nowhere cheap to live locally, so staff will have to drive there. And would you want to spend a good chunk of your wages on driving to and from Grosmont, especially when you won't be leaving there until close to midnight? The Bluebell will be in the same boat. If you're young and want a waiting/bartending job, better to live and work in a big town than have to commute out to a village in the middle of nowhere.

 

It wasn't that long ago that NYMR dining services were staffed by volunteers. Some still do volunteer for the job but I think it is a declining number.

 

I think the pool of people we're fishing in to find volunteers is also getting smaller. I remember the glory days of all volunteer dining trains staffed by the recently retired, and a generation of women who had never worked at all since marrying, but were now in their 50s and 60s quite enjoying themselves on a Sunday.

People simply aren't retiring early in sufficient numbers to do everything that was done by volunteers in the 1990s. It's hard enough (anecdotally) on some lines to find people for the 'glamour' jobs like footplate crew, never mind volunteer-run dining trains.

Edited to add - the last para contains a number of sweeping statements, but at the same time in a lot of locations I think is true.

 

Deleted.

 

I agree with both points here. As far as on-train dining goes, I don't expect it to be cheap. I've only ever eaten aboard once on the SVR, and that was an ASG breakfast which was a rather different market... cost £12 at the time, plus a couple of quid tip, which though only a few years ago seems almost unbelievably cheap now! The SVR's station catering offering is now pretty good, so I'm happy to eat there and leave the on-train stuff to people richer than me. If these packages sell out at £132, then it's hard to say it was the wrong price point. If the trains run half-empty then that's different, but if that happens everyone will know about it and there'll surely be a rethink anyway.

The 2nd point is maybe a meatier one, no pun intended. As I've said in the past, if the railway is going to take a more hard-edged business stance on things, then it can't reasonably complain if its customers also become more demanding in a "What do I get for £X?" way. Relying on comfortably off pensioners etc seems one of those things that might work pretty well in the short term but less in the long term. Food inflation isn't far off 20% at the moment and you don't have to be especially poor to be feeling that. I don't claim to have a simple answer and I do have more optimism over the SVR's future than I have for a while, however.

Linking into a previous topic, it's also the case that *seeing* a steam train on the SVR as opposed to actually travelling is very easy without paying anything, owing to the number of rights of way and publicly accessible viewpoints by the track. I don't think "freeloading" arguments would have much impact on most casual visitors, since many would surely think along the lines of: if a Ferrari parks in my street nobody expects me to pay to look at it or watch it drive off. Besides, the fact that the SVR doesn't generally restrict platform access to ticket holders only suggests that it's not an issue the railway is all that worried about.

 

Random comments:

In 2022 the SVR ran dining trains, put up wages and struggled to recruit and keep staff. I can see the attraction for (a) running a smaller operation with a bigger margin and (b) subbing it to someone who takes the responsibility for sourcing labour and already has staff contacts to fill shifts at short notice.

I'm struggling to reconcile the national picture of fewer volunteers with the increase of half a million in the economically inactive people aged 16 to 64 following COVID-19?

In retail and hospitality there's got to be a drag on why people volunteer when they can (if they want to) go to Tesco or the Whistling Ferret, and get paid for a shift doing the same thing - in a way that you couldn't in, say, an operational role such as signaller or TTI.

 

Am I right in thinking that most of the station buffets are now staffed by volunteers now?
I know there’s been some complaints about opening times from some on here but as my old man works in Bewdley buffet I hope people understand my interest.

 

Cheers Pete.

 

See also post #3763 Matt

Edit - link is playing up?
SVR General Discussion

 

Thank you Patrick

 

Would urge everyone interested in this thread to take a look at this, where the Ffestiniog's GM addresses many of the broader issues the SVR has raised and explains the FR's reaction.
I know the SVR isn't the FR, but surely there are some lessons to be learnt? Also an abject lesson in transparency.

General Manager’s Update - Spring 2023 - YouTube

 

Stand out comment, it costs £3k to send a train up the Ffestiniog and £5k to send one up the Welsh Highland - does the SVR have a comparable figure for Kidderminster to Bridgnorth?

 

An interesting figure, I wonder the methodology for its calculation (not able to watch the video at the moment if it does answer that)

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