7027 Thornbury Castle

They seem to have gone very quiet on locomotives full stop, I don't recall there being anything about the fleet at all, bar those out on hire, in the most recent echo. Not sure what is going on as the carriage and wagon coverage in the Echo has become really good, but radio silence on locomotives.

Likewise there seems to have been nothing from the 4709 group for 9 months.

Not sure bonkers is the word, the tales from the GWS/4709 group seems to change like the wind, and making a big song and dance about being prepared as a gesture of good will to sell something one doesn't actually even own just seems rather fishy to me, suppose it at least explains why, if rumours are to be believed, anyone expressing an interest was not really encouraged.

 

I thought selling something you did not own made someone a conman?

 

Not sure its as strong as that, but it does bring to mind 'short selling' in the City.

 

So,

• The loco was “advertised for sale” by way of one article in Trackside (I believe this is correct? Please correct me if I am wrong?)
• It was reported as “sold” by a range of media outlets covering the story
• There were protestations online as to who it had been sold to, because of what it was being sold for
• This prolonged outcry led Didcot to declare an amnesty and a six month period for alternate potential purchasers
• There was a price set that put it out of the reach of those interested - we don’t know that is, but is likely significantly higher than the deposit we now know to have been paid
• We now know the full sale price wasn’t paid and a deposit to hold (just the boiler? Or the whole loco?) paid and the owner is waiting on full payment

Have I got that just about right?

If that’s accurate - god help this industry. This is ridiculous.

To be brutally honest I cannot abide the way this whole sorry affair has been carried out.

Who has this last year of back and forth benefitted? No one.

I feel sorry for the GCR volunteers who got caught up in this last year, and Didcot, having to handle this as delicately as possible to prevent further bad press.

Heads need to be banged together and the whole thing sorted out properly. Perhaps one of those media outlets would like to offer a means to full resolution? Hmmm? Just a thought…

If there’s one good thing that’s come out of this, it is the knowledge that it is a holding deposit and if not fully pad for, the locomotive might revert to previous ownership. Then 7027 might have a fighting chance of surviving again.

What this has done to the future of 4709 - who knows.

What a mess.

 

My source is a letter with both "The 4709 Project" and "Great Western Society Ltd" at the top and the signature of Richard Croucher at the bottom. With even the boiler not yet fully paid for I am just surmising that the 4709/GWS deal excludes the frames (and motion etc): I have no definite information on that.

The letter states that they received no bids from anyone "with adequate funds or resources to enable the restoration of Thornbury Castle in the near future" (my emphasis) which is consistent with suggestions on here that they may not have been open to any bid to buy the loco for restoration over a longer period.

Even though I would like to see 4709 completed and I am personally not too bothered by the absence of a rescuer for Thornbury Castle once the previous owner withdrew support for the restoration, I can't say I am very happy with how the deal has been handled. (And because of personal circumstances I'm not likely to be contributing to any appeals for the time being.)

Meanwhile what has actually happened to Thornbury Castle? Is it still cluttering up the GC?

 

It was certainly still there when I went to the Diesel Gala last month. The boiler and tender body were loaded on wagons in the headshunt of Quorn yard to the south of the signalbox, which is where they have been for a while.
Presumably the rest is still in Loughboro' shed, though no doubt "Flying Phil" can confirm that.

 

So, if the GWS have only put down a deposit, and can't fund the rest of the purchase, then the owner would be with in their right to listen to other bids, if someone comes forward with the asking price, or a very close offer

 

It seems to me that there may be 'Governance Issues' at Didcot?

 

A much earlier post did say that no other bids were forth coming. And suggestion by Jon Jones-Pratt fell on stony ground.

 

Not Phil, but can confirm all is as you say (at least as of the 8th May when I was last there).

 

Presumably there will be a time limit on the deposit, at which point the deposit will either be returned to the GWS or forfeit. This would seem to raise some serious questions about governance issues surrounding this project and as much as I'd love to see a Night Owl, I think I'll be keeping my money back from this one for now.

With regards to the lack of loco updates at Didcot, having recently been there it did seem that the focus was elsewhere but actually this seemed like a positive to me. There's lots of evidence of improvements and tidying up being made to the site with the the stripped 42xx being tidied up, Kerosene Castle receiving much needed repairs, manky Mk3 sleeper out of the way, Heyford station progressing and changes around the main entrance. There was talk previously that GWS has lacked a "guiding mind" bringing the place together but instead has a large number of groups going in different directions. My casual impression is that it certainly feels like it is now making positive progress towards being a more viable attraction, the kind of attraction that can bring in the wider public, their funds and even convert a few of them into enthusiasts...

 

Something stinks about this whole affair with 7027. I wonder how many viable offers there actually were for the loco? I doubt we will ever find out.
If Didcot and/or the 4709 group ask for donations now to buy the Castle I can't see many people at all putting their hands in their pockets after the farce of the last year. A rather embarrassing episode in Railway preservation to be honest.

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Correction: no bids that met Didcot's preconditions.
Rather ironic that they chose to make it a condition that any bidder needed to have the funds available to fund all of the restoration when I doubt that any of their own projects have ever had such funding.

 

The frames for Thornbury were still in Lbro shed at the far end of No3 road. They are on jacks. I think that 777 Sir Lamiel's tender follows. Then there are the frames of 63601 also on jacks. The collection of wheels and axles for 63601 are on the rails, then, by the shed door are the wheels and axles for Thornbury.
So it is going to be a difficult job to actually remove the parts of Thornbury from Lbro!

 

Exactly. 7027 needs to be owned by an active, like minded, determined group of ordinary folk. Very few locos are fully funded from day 1 and that requirement is rather ironic when compared with the 4709 project itself.

 

Hard to "like" that post, but thank you anyway.

It does suggest there is something awry in the governance. In particular, the uses of the GWS' General Fund is a decision only for the GWS Trustees - I don't see how a different group can unilaterally commit to that spending.

All very murky. One wonders as well what (if any) due diligence the vendor did about the ability of the buyer to pay the asking price within an agreed timescale. As things stand, it seems that if the desire of the vendor was to be rid of the loco and remove it from the GCR, he is still no closer to that objective.

Tom

 

Based on previous discussions, I suspect the issue is that the “different group” has leaders with enough history of GWS leadership that the distinction between tail and dog has been lost sight of.

I would be interested in whether a report has been made to the Charities Commission about the impact of this failure of governance.


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i was referring to the original sale by the owner - nothing to do with Didcot as they claimed not know about the sale to the 4709 Group.

 

One would assume that the shaky tin is out now, as the GWS general fund wants/needs its money back? I suspect next years accounts could make interesting reading, especially if the internal correction hasn't been managed by that point.

Indeed a lot of this does seem to boil down to certain parties within the GWS whilst no longer involved in day to day management retaining sufficient internal clout to act with carte blanche with regards to their pet projects.

 

Could the fund set up by the GCR in memory of the volunteer ,( i can't remember his name) step in to secure the engine, in the same way as the 9f and then offer shares in it to regroup the funding to repay the trust, It would at least secure the loco for the GCR, plus, with the extension, one day, larger engines will make operational sence,