Matheran 740

As I posted once on another thread, I had read that the original German army versions of the 0-10-0t had a top speed of 20KPH but a true working speed of about 8KPH. The standard gauge versions were much faster at about 45KPH. Unfortunately I still can’t locate the information that I had read to validate this. I will still caveat my comment by saying that I do not know how much O&K improved upon the design after the First World War which could have changed the speed. According to F. Rach’s German website the first three that went to Argentina were only slightly modified. The remaining 7 had further developments with changes to the boiler, superstructure and the inclusion of tenders. Would they have changed the gears to improve the speed at the time?
Kawasaki also built versions of this locomotive following a number of O&K locomotives ending up with the Japanese army. Apparently these did not have the Luttermoller gearing but used Klein Lindner axles so back to 740 in a manner of speaking!

 

Now that seems a far more realistic speed for this type of loco!

 

Found this:-

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/luttermoller/luttermoller.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luttermöller_axle

While I don't disagree with you about the top speed of these locos, I do have to wonder why no one has touched them before now, is it the lack of technical information that has put people off of them?

 

From all that has been written so far it would seem that 740 would be best located on a short line with no lineside structures. What a shame Adrian Shooter is no longer with us - 740 and his B-class would have been a nice pairing for an Indian -themed private line like his!

 

There is no particular limit to the speed of the Luttermollers outside the physics that apply to any other steam locomotive - so wheel size, bore/stroke, valve events, etc. The gearboxes are effectively silent in operation and the front and rear trucks make them ride and track like a Diesel with bogies. The comparison that would probably work best for most readers here is the FR's double Fairlies.

There is a lot of opinion that's been repeated often enough to become fact on the internet. Even on mediocre track they are extremely stable and capabable of a surprising turn of speed without any drama or fuss. There is literally nothing complicated about them, there are just six gears. That is less than many Diesel electric locos and certainly less than your car has.

The thing that makes the Preston locos poor candidates for restoration is a huge number of missing parts and the poor condition of the frames, boilers and tyres. Once you've stacked that up you are better starting from scratch with a loco that is actually suited to the railway you want to run it on. Unless, that is, you really like unusual articulated O+Ks and feel sorry for them sitting in a field for 20 years.

The video below is 11073/1925 at the Frankfurter Feldbahnmusem last year. As you can hear from the video there is no noise from the gearboxes and really quite good levels of refinement, certainly better than an 0-4-0 of similar weight and power.

https://youtube.com/shorts/VHEr9YkF-0I?feature=share

 

Well that wouldn't be anything new to the L&BR in Devon, considering what had to be done to get AXE to get her back into working order, I would guess they would be more of a labour of love.

 

The Matheran locos have Klien Lindner axles, which is a different concept from the Luttermoeller geared drive. I attach a drawing of a Matheran loco from an article in the 1907 Locomotive Magazine.

 

I very much think it would be a tough sell bearing in mind there are a couple of Manning Wardles under construction already. One of them will be considerably bigger than it is now once my O+K isn't taking the space up it needs to be erected in.

 

Well lets hope the planning Authority can get itself together so we know what is happen and if we can have a bigger railway to play with when your Manning Wardle has been built.

 

Re Luttermoller - it seems that the Mecklenberg - Pomersche Schmalspurbahn acquired two 1918 versions in 1934. (Nr 17 and 18) and converted them into tender versions where they were deployed until the Second World War. After which they were given to Russia as War repatriations. I have just checked Wolf-Dietger Machel’s book on the railway which suggests the maximum speed for the two were 25kph. This incidentally (merely for comparison) is the same maximum speed for the more powerful 0-8-0’s from the same railway that were destined for the Vale of Rheidol (had history taken a slightly different track in the 70’s)

 

It's not mine, although I am happy to accept donations of them

 

Just hope you have a large garden to store her if the planning goes south.

 

Any news on this one?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

It doesn't seem so which is a real shame. The other three are never likely to run again. It seems like quite a capable machine although I imagine it needs a fair bit of TLC. Perhaps the Indian loco that needs "saving" is not the one with the silly tender.

 

An extract from the South Tyndale Railway Facebook posted in March…

“Thanks to everyone who responded to our posting about loco no 740. It has resulted in some interesting conversations and ideas about the way forward. We will be back in touch with interested parties to try to take things forward. Our objective is to arrive at a situation where the loco stands the best chance of running again for the benefit of enthusiasts and public alike.”

With nothing further seemingly published either the STR have not yet made a decision or negotiations are still ongoing behind closed doors.

 

Scrapping seems the logical future, not interesting enough for a plinth being German. Sad, looked well at LB years ago.

 

Extraordinarily unlikely. The most likely outcome for locos where ownership and funding makes restoration difficult in the short term is simply neglect.
I think with NG locos especially interesting ones like this the prospects are pretty good if the owners are willing for it to go to someone who can restore it.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

Not sure what being German built has to do with it?
From a technical perspective it is probably far more interesting than a quarry hunslet (immediately dives for cover....)
I understand from someone who operated it on the LB at the time that it was possibly a bit overpowered for them and was mechanically tired but generally pretty well liked. He did say however that when on the footplate you were never quite 100% confident what direction the outer wheels were going to point in. (Though not as bad as a Brigadelok!)

I hope somebody takes it on

Chris

 

Hi Chris if we had a place for it in North Devon then I would be trying to rally some support for her and I would also be on the phone to STR. I have also listen to what the guys at Buzzard have to say about her and I have also consulted with a couple of others as well.

The general feeling is she really need a major heavy overhaul from the frames up, I have been told there is a lot of tired and well worn equipment on her that will need either replacing or repaired. So it is not going to be a quick or cheap fix.

I am convinces that it would be possible to do, but it just needs a bit of team work to kick it all off. Sadly I don't live in Devon, but if things could change then that would be on the bucket list.

 

It will most certainly not be a quick or cheap fix. When Railworld were looking to part with 740 they enlisted a third party to undertake a non invasive assessment of the work needed. I saw that report as I was party to a genuine enquiry regarding its purchase. On a contract basis it was going to take about £250k to get her into steam and that was priced over a decade ago. I don’t believe that figure took into account what may have additionally been identified once items like the axles were taken apart - any replacement parts are not going to be an ‘off the shelf’ purchase. Noting that the STR Facebook post stated that they are looking at a situation that best gets the loco into steam, any group that wants to take it on are going to have to go to great lengths to demonstrate that they have the ability and financial resource to do so. Yes it can be done and if the proposal was based upon volunteer labour it could be done cheaper than I mentioned above. The question is more about whether a proposal would actually be completed and would it give the STR the confidence to be willing to part with 740. Personally I think this may be why there isn’t any news on a potential change of ownership; it’s not straight forward unless there is an individual out there with deep pockets willing to buy her.