A2 60532 Blue Peter

Tornado’s going to have some competition for being my favourite Peppercorn Pacific soon!

 

If we are assuming the firebox is complete, the loco is now re-wheeled, how long before we see steam from Crewe??!!!!!!

 

BR green again. Currently no LNER Pacific in steam wearing LNER apple green (even with BR branding). Tornado will buck that trend when back of course.

 

If it goes where LSL usually send it’s locos out on test I have a feeling I’ll be going up and staying with my parents for a few days entirely coincidentally of course…

 

It does seem to be taking a very long time, in the time its been under overhaul several of its stablemates have already had overhauls, and now on their next tickets, I'm assuming LSL's regular engines have taken priority over 60532, I think I can remember somewhere that 60532 was in far worse condition than at first thought, still if the boilers ready for hydraulic testing, hopefully soon it will once again be heading tours, and perhaps then, thought can be given to starting 35027

 

What would be the earliest correct livery for this engine? LNER Green with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender? Already got one of those. Express Passenger Blue? Would be nice...

 

To be fair Martin, it's had a new middle cylinder cast and machined, along with a new firebox and I think new tyres, all while being delayed by covid. Probably the heaviest overhaul LSL have carried out.

 

You can’t rush perfection mate
I’m very biased, 60532 is a one of my teenage crush’s

 

The EP Blue as once worn by Tornado looked absolutely amazing, but AFAIK it wasn't carried by the Peppercorn A2s?

 

Can’t have blue - none of the A2 variants got it as they weren’t 8P rated.

 

Well, you learn something every day - I was sure that they were rated 8P7F - so what were they? 7MT or 7P6F?

 

7P6F I think. I will check for you later on. Only the 8Ps got express passenger blue. On the ex-LNER that was:

All the A3s
All the A4s
Great Northern (A1/1)
All the Peppercorn A1s
The W1

Which excluded:

All the Thompson A2s
All the Peppercorn A2s

What did the top group all have? 6ft 8in driving wheels. The bottom group had 6ft 2in driving wheels.

 

I thought the A3 class was classified 7P/6F.

 

60501-6 A2/2 rebuilt P2 2-8-2 7MT
60507-10 Originally intended to be V2 2-6-2, redesigned as 4-6-2 6MT
60522-24 and 60500 A2/2 7MT
60525-39 , A2 built under Peppercorn aegis. 7MT

I think the above is correct. I timed one of the rebuilt V2s on the “Heart of.Midlothian” from Newcastle
to Edinburgh with the reduced normal ten coach load. Kept time comfortably and galloped down to Beal.
67 minutes to Berwick stop, 32 minutes on to Dunbar. A good 6MT performance

The A2s were undoubtedly excellent machines and power wise similar to the Peppercorn A1s

Michael Rowe

 

Combines say: -
A4s 8P6F
A3s 7P6F
A1s 8P6F
A2/1 60507-10 7P6F
Other A2s 8P7F
W1 60700 8P7F

 

So was the definition in fact by wheel diameter for what got blue then? Interesting way of doing it! Thanks all for the corrections.

 

I have checked the BR power classifications for the A2s I gave from memory. i.e 6MT for the four locos
designed around a V2 boiler i.e 6MT and 7MT for the rest, ( rebuilt P2 and new ) with the RCTS vol 2A. and it
agrees. ( written by Messrs Body, Neve and Yeadon )

I think SACM’s original thoughts re Blue only for 8P is correct.

It of course emphasises the variation of the 8P designation i.e King and Duchess but not the A2 with
their 50 square foot grate. The Merchant Navy as 8P suggests the 6’2” coupled wheels is not the criterion .

Michael Rowe

 

AIUI according to the calculations used by BR, a King was a 7P, but there was local autonomy afforded to the regions to amend the numbers given by calculation in the light of operational experience - presumably someone at Swindon felt it a sleight that their top passenger locos wasn't in the same class as those in use elsewhere! Similarly, by the formula a Castle was a class 6.

By contrast, I believe by calculation a Britannia just scraped into 8P, but was changed in the other direction to be classified as a class 7.

The passenger ratings calculation is strongly influenced by the boiler dimensions, i.e. the calculation suggests that the main factor is considered to be related to the sustained capacity of the boiler to produce steam. The freight ratings, by contrast, are based on TE and adhesion, i.e. the capacity of the loco to shift a large load.

As noted, having calculated the theoretical power band, local discretion was allowed to change it in either direction in the light of experience.

Tom

 

So my understanding was that the A3s were considered 8P, which is why they received the blue. Certainly the A4s, W1, A1/1 and the Peppercorn A1s were definitively 8P. Everything else was 6MT (A2/1s), 7MT (A2/2, A2/3, Peppercorn A2).

It is an interesting coincidence that all of the 6ft 8in ex-LNER locos got express blue, and none of the 6ft 2in ex-LNER locos did. Or maybe, given the mixed traffic moniker of the LNER in relation to the 6ft 2in classes, that was sort of the point?

The Merchant Navies despite the smaller wheel diameter are obviously 8P, the WC/BoBs more mixed traffic.

It's interesting to see the differences!

 

Wasn't it really just that the premier Express locomotives on each region got the blue? With SR and GWR that was just one class, but with the LMS there were the two classes, and on the LNER the 6'2 pacifics were second echelon.