A2 60532 Blue Peter

Did any A3's receive BR blue livery? They may have done but I can't recollect seeing any evidence. As regards power classification, my understanding has always been A3 rated as 7p6F, A1, A2 & A4 rated as 8P6F except the A2/1's built using V2 bits and pieces, which were 7P6F, as were theV2's. Casserley confirms this. Unfortunately, LNER locos rarely carried their power classification on the cab side so photographic evidence is difficult and engine diagrams don't contain this and even the LNER website is silent on the matter.

 

RCTS, Yeadon's, virtually any photobook on A3s, google, take your pic Steve

This is why I suspect the eastern region didn't select the liveries by power classification, but did it by wheel diameter.

All of the express blue locos were 6ft 8in machines and all that didn't have it were 6ft 2in.

On the ex-LNER regions, 6ft 8in = express, 6ft 2in = mixed traffic, anything below that is mixed traffic or freight. The Gresley A3s were certainly regarded as express passenger and did fill in for A4s regularly on their diagrams.

I think you would find it hard to argue that the A3s didn't do work regularly equalling that of other 8Ps around them.

 

D49’s were 6ft 8in machines and they didn’t get express blue

 

Hmmm. Not sure about "second echelon" - but they were definitely regarded as mixed traffic.

I’ll refer you to the Gresley thread. It’s not much of a “gotcha”.

 

By that logic D11 Directors with their 6ft 9in wheels should have been extra blue...

 

3’9” …





Tom

 

And Claud Hamiltons ................? (7' Drivers)


Mind You they were blue originally

 

I think (or would like to think) it was pretty obvious we were talking Pacifics only, given that’s all that was discussed (aside from the W1) in LNER terms.

I do find the jumping in with gotcha commentary rather wearying, always have done.

 

Excellent - evidence! Thank you for posting.

 

Just wondering when LMS 7P became 8P?

Thanks
Dave

 

Presumably it took some time before the ex LNER regions really adopted the LMS power class system: initially one imagines they carried on as before (and of course the WR never really paid much attention to it). Its striking, I think, that the Railway Pictorial piece printed above only makes any mention of the power classifications in relation to the LMS engines. It seems to me trying to create a set of fixed categories to apply across all regions at this early date is probably futile.

 

Early B.R. days. I do not know the exact year.

 

I believe it was in 1951.

 

I remembered that the A2s had a relatively high figure for tractive effort, and although TE isn't a reliable indicator of power, I thought I'd copy some numbers out:

A1 37400 lbs
A2 40430 lbs
A3 30362 lbs
A4 35455 lbs
P1 38500 lbs (47300 lbs with booster)
P2 (original) 43462 lbs (2007 43684 lbs)
W1 (rebuilt) 41437 lbs
Duchess 40000 lbs
Lizzie 40286 lbs
King 40300 lbs (as built), 39700 after first overhaul
Castle 31625 lbs
28xx 35380 lbs
MN 33495 lbs
WC/BB 27715 lbs
8F 32440 lbs
9F 39447 lbs
BR8 (71000) 39080 lbs
LNER Garratt 72940 lbs
LMS Garratt 45620 lbs

 

That suggests that any correlation between livery and technical characteristics like wheel diameter or TE is purely serendipitous (ie correlation does not equal causation).

Instead, the answer to “which engines got express blue?” is seemingly “the ones the Railway Executive decreed”.

Tom

 

Be still my beating heart. I would love to see Scotsman run in blue for a spell… do we know if it coincided with the German deflectors?

Simon

 

With the best part of ten years between the time it could be painted blue, and the fitting of the Witte smoke deflectors, the answer has to be "No".

As an aside, the literal translation from German for the Witte deflectors is 'wind guiding sheets' which could be more correct than 'smoke deflectors'.

 

I was under the impression that the German style deflectors didn't start appearing on the A3s until the latter half of the 50s, while express passenger blue had long gone by then.

Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

 

Afraid not, express blue applied from 1950-1953 and all gone by around 1953. Only Humorist had this livery with a double chimney, but it had the Peppercorn style deflectors applied.