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End of Southern Steam 09/07/23

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by banana patch, Jun 30, 2023.

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  1. AMP

    AMP Member

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    Front end has been 'tidied'

    PXL_20230709_075751035.jpg
     
    AMP, Jul 9, 2023
    #21
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  2. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

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    Shame. Nice photo, though. Assuming the fire risk is still high, despite some rain, I didn't bother to go out for it today. A late departure from Victoria, I see.
     
    Deepgreen, Jul 9, 2023
    #22
  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    And that may cause a great deal of effort from the rear to keep it ahead of the SWR 1L25 service that is only five minutes behind the charter at Salisbury. If it overstays at Winchfield then I can see it being held to let the SWR service pass it at Basingstoke.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2023
    #23
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    So the late running charter is supposed to switch from slow to fast to pick up passengers. But 1L25 also needs to call for its passengers and is switched to slow (P1) to pick up. Off it goes, four late. Meanwhile the charter has to wait its turn, now on the slow, because a Cross Country needs the fast line and is due immediately after the charter.

    So on a Sunday morning we have three trains going west at Basingstoke within a few minutes of each other and the late running charter causes chaos at Basingstoke with two sets of passengers having to change from one platform to another. Just a day in the life of the signallers, all down to a late running charter that probably left Victoria through no fault of its own in the first place.

    A classic example of the narrow margins of train planning that assumes everything keeps to its slot. But as we know, sometimes steam charters need more space around them than may be needed for other services.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2023
    #24
  5. matthews

    matthews New Member

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    Charter was routed ahead of the Exeter into platform 2 but route was cancelled as it approached resulting in both trains sitting next to each other at reds short of the completely empty station for 5 mins. Which then caused the issue with the cross country. Not sure it’s the charters fault,
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
    matthews, Jul 9, 2023
    #25
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  6. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

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    I looked at RTT and could see no reason for the lost time between Hook and Basingstoke as nothing else was in p1 throughout. Odd. The water stop was only 10 minutes, but I have no idea if it was filled. Time OK again after Salisbury, but the Basingstoke issue is strange, and all this on a Sunday. The incoming stock from Southall WCR left there 4 late and lost more time en route to Victoria - maybe a path was lost from that 4 minutes? Anyway a 13 late arrival at Victoria didn't make for a timely departure from there, and so on...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
    Deepgreen, Jul 9, 2023
    #26
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    If the charter had been sent across into P2 as planned then it would have delayed the service train 1L25 so my guess is that the route was cancelled and it all had to be reset for 1L25 to be switched into P1. That takes time especially with synchronising it with platform alteration announcements.

    I wasn't suggesting that it was the charter's fault except to say that had it been on time at Basingstoke, which it wasn't, then there wouldn't have been a problem. But the late departure from VIC didn't help and often the stock is late into VIC from Southall.

    Anyway, all three trains look to be on time at destinations and that's what it's all about, I guess.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2023
    #27
  8. johnnew

    johnnew Member

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    As it will be leading after Yeovil which diesel is it please? Trying to decide whether worth going out for that or just the MN later
     
    johnnew, Jul 9, 2023
    #28
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy Part of the furniture

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    We were ready for it on arrival at Salisbury and a smooth operation by all involved resulted in an 18 late arrival at Salisbury to a 1 late departure. The 47 on the rear is 47802.
    20230709_115442_016.jpg 20230709_121246.jpg
     
    Shaggy, Jul 9, 2023
    #29
  10. johnnew

    johnnew Member

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    Thank you
     
    johnnew, Jul 9, 2023
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  11. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    According to a friend who's on the train, 35018 was apparently out of gauge for platform 2 at Basingstoke, hence being re-routed into platform 1.
     
    5944, Jul 9, 2023
    #31
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    If true then the train plan from NR wouldn't have had it picking up in P2. And then there is the fact that a Merchant Navy has been through P2 before on a speed restriction. But that's all just as useless a piece of info as the 'apparently' info above. :)
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2023
    #32
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Am I correct in thinking that if a route is signalled and then cancelled, the is a built in time delay before a new route can be set?
     
    RalphW, Jul 9, 2023
    #33
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

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    The NR plan may have been wrong. Something may have changed regarding p2 since a MN last used it. The cant on p1 would take the cylinders away from the platform edge rather than towards on p2. One wonders if it was realised within five minutes by the signaller that p2 may have been verboten, or whether other factors contributed. No real harm done, but there does tend to be a drift towards blaming charters for anything they are involved in. The root of it is possibly the 4 minute late departure from Southall WCR, which looks innocuous but may (only may) have precipitated a chain of events that led to such prolonged late running until the smart work at Salisbury put things right (although I note that it's 20 late again at Yeovil!).
     
    Deepgreen, Jul 9, 2023
    #34
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    As #27.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2023
    #35
  16. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

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    I think 1L25 was just ahead of the charter (albeit about 3L) by Basingstoke so could have made its booked stop in p2 in a couple of minutes and then left, allowing 35018 into p2. As it was, both trains were held outside next to each other with empty platforms ahead. I also don't think signallers worry about p.a. annoucements in their signalling decisions. Fascinating Sunday congestion!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
    Deepgreen, Jul 9, 2023
    #36
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Not only at a station, a few years back a charter approached a junction and the driver realised that we were signalled for straight ahead when we were actually going left. He stopped before the signal contacted the local box and we sat there for several minutes before the correct route was signalled. Speaking to the driver later in the day, he confirmed that this delay could not be overridden.
     
    RalphW, Jul 9, 2023
    #37
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  18. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    Answering a variety of points.
    When a route is cancelled there is a two minute time out before a new route can be set from the starting end of the route.

    There is no restriction through platform 1 at Basingstoke for 35018, but there is a 30mph FABRIC restriction through platform 2.
    ( This restriction has changed quite a few times over the years, not so long ago it was a PROHIBIT via platform 2 for 35028.)

    The regulating does seem a bit odd. Quite often late running down voyagers run via platform 4 if there is nothing running up line. I'm completely out of touch with the regulating instructions these days except that an on time train has preference over late running services.

    Cheers, Neil
     
    Romsey, Jul 9, 2023
    #38
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  19. matthews

    matthews New Member

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    The 159 was passing Hook when we came to a stand outside Basingstoke. It then joined us at the signals for 5 mins before leaving.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
    matthews, Jul 9, 2023
    #39
  20. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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    My humble efforts with the camcorder today - well, yesterday, actually!



    Ron.
     
    45669, Jul 10, 2023
    #40
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