Steam Dreams 2023

I understood that is now the situation on all mainline tours whoever operates them

 

I guess it depends. At first the stewards, guard etc all kept putting the windows up. However like I said, the guard had no issue with me and a friend standing by the doors of our Mark 2 so we could hear the Brit climbing Hildenborough bank. I guess so long as it's clear you're just standing there to listen and aren't going to break the rules (e.g window hang) then it'll be fine. Whether you could stand there for a long period of time however is another matter. It was near the end of the journey, first class had done their final orders etc.

I think however the guard also got the impression we were enthusiasts. I understand why they'd want you to stay in your seat, though.

 

The other strange thing with charters (of whatever haulage) is that unlike a normal train you can only sell tickets for the number of seats there are. Which in turn of course often means stewards "in the way" in the buffet as there is nowhere else to go as tour companies need to sell as many seats as possible.

 

Certainly the case with RTC (officially anyway) on todays N Wales tour. Says in tour book " Passengers are are not permitted to stand in the vestibule areas whilst the train is moving. PLEASE DO NOT STAND AT DOOR WINDOWS." This was reiterated by the very pleasant but firm RTC steward when I boarded. I got the impression that, quite correctly and understandably, things have been tightened up considerably since the Jacobite debacle.

 

Depends on who is operating the trip. LSL don't sell every seat, not even close. A "fully booked" LSL train is one that's at around 70% occupancy.

 

I sometimes open the sliding toplight and put my ear near the opening. I think there is slightly less noise from the wheels there than at a droplight at the end of the coach.

 

I think you're right, certainly on steam tours. I've been on a few diesel tours recently where it definitely wasn't the case although these were pre-Jacobite issues so it may be different now. Personally I've completely stopped doing steam tours and just concentrate on heritage lines as being sat in the same seat all day, occasionally hearing the loco isn't my idea of fun.

 

Fully booked tends to mean fully booked. Impressively, five FO’s of Premier Dining saw not a seat spare not long back…

 

Exactly,and I suspect that, sadly, this will be the death knell for steam tours. I think enough enthusiasts/semi-enthusiasts will also baulk at the same prospect and err on the side of not bothering. I really hope I'm wrong....

 

I am far from sure the market generally these days will be seriously impacted by some of the enthusiasts/semi-enthusiasts deciding not to travel. For many it is the experience and the food that is the main selling point. Otherwise why do things like the NB and Statesman do so well? A steam loco on the front is a bonus for the photographs at either end, or maybe a water stop.

 

Completely. There will be 300 to 400 on the train to Scarborough today. What proportion of them will want to stand beside a window going past 55A? The only thing I would say is that on a four or five hour journey, the occasional leg stretch is a necessity.

 

I think that @TheModster 's interesting description of a recent journey on an SD Kent circular underlines what you are saying. We enthusiasts are no longer the prime market for operators of charter trains. The whole ethos has changed from, say the early 1980s, when a steam loco would be hauling 10 or 12 two-tone blue and not necessarily pristine Mark 1s full largely of enthusiasts with catering consisting of a single buffet car. The carriages are now (usually) much cleaner, the proportion of diners is much higher and there are a number of operational and regulatory features which do deter quite a few enthusiasts, ranging from bans on window-hanging to diesels on the back. Obviously, if the dining market helps pay the bills for loco owners and keeps steam on the main line, this is a cause for gratitude and thankfully, there are still a good few enthusiast-orientated specials, such as RTC's winter Cumbrian Mountain Expresses. It's just a shame that they are an impossibly long day out if you live somewhere like Sussex, as I do.

 

You are of course right the CME would be a long day, but you are way better off than a lot, as you are (according to Mr. Google) only about 25 miles from Three Bridges which does mean you are on the only line I know of that has a 24 hour service. Euston only a short walk (or a free bus ride if you have a Freedom Pass) from St. Pancras.

 

I am also very close to that now

 

I suppose the inevitable evolution is that coaches with any opening windows (mk1s and early Mk2s) will disappear. Tours will cater essentially for diners in air-conditioned stock and the traction will be almost impossible to determine from within the train. This scenario will be unappealing to those with an intrinsic interest in steam and they will fall away. That interest will presumably decline anyway as those who recall it in service dwindle in numbers. Preserved railways may continue to appeal to enthusiasts, but the main line market must surely be a shrinking one over the coming years. I'm not meaning to be a doomsayer, just stating a realistic take on things.

 

The first class dining end of the market appears to be as strong as ever, it is standard class that struggles to sell. Those unaffected by the cost of living crisis continue to spend on premium products. Good food and steam seems to be an attractive product for younger folk who have something to celebrate or want a nice day out - this must be a positive. This is where the future is.
Many charters now only have 1 or 2 carriages for us normals! This predates interest rate rises, Covid etc and has been a long term trend for some time. The way forward for steam is to service these premium markets - for those of us who wish to still see steam at speed - this is the route for it to continue.
People have been predicting the end of mainline steam for the last 30 years, but it continues and with trains running most days over summer. It will end at some point, which is why I continue to make an effort, but it won't be lack of interested enthusiasts that finish it, there are already too few of us to pay for all the trains that run.
That is why you can not complain if operators make adjustments to suit other markets - that may include air conditioned stock, they are a lot more comfortable than Mk 1s.

 

Some of us enjoy railtours regardless of traction if the route and/or the destination appeals, and that goes for all classes, standard, first non-dining and first dining. A lot of the time, the only evidence of a steam loco at the front is smoke and steam drifting past, but some of the time you can hear the loco. For some of us, hearing the loco is an important part of the experience (though a remarkable number of passengers continue to chatter). If you are in a coach with windows that don't open, so you can't hear the loco, the added appeal over diesel traction is minimal. Steam traction costs more to operate and that is reflected in the fares. Why pay that extra if you see the loco only briefly (which you can do just as well from the lineside) and never hear it?

 

Does steam cost more to operate? Many of the diesel tours seem to cost way more than steam tours now. Pathfinder seem to be £129 standard, UKR £119.
Deltic tour last week was more I think, and the UKR one in the 19th £129 standard £185 non dining, £289 dining. So basically same as a CME.
Lots of moaning about assisting diesels on the back. All sounds very similar does it not?