Manning Wardles "YEO" and "EXE" new-build

Words fail me

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OO9 or O16.5?

Tom

 

If you are prepared to step up to 16mm/foot you can get a Darj C or D pretty much off the shelf.

 

I have been doing some reserch on a couple of these only because no one was able to give me any idea of just how much they would be talking about. Both the Daj C and D we are looking at around £2 million each, the others anything from about £1.5 million and upwards. This of course should they get built using a professional contractor.

But when you start to quote figures of £10million+ just for the above, then you have to ask yourself is it all worth it? I am under no illusion as to the costs involved and this is why there is more proposals than we have active projects.

I dread to think just how much all of Collection X is going to cost to restore to full working order, even recently Gramham Lee said he has been throwing £10,000 of pounds at all the locos he has and he has not finished yet.

This is why I mention these proposals since there are people out there that do want these locos but just don't know how to go about raising the money to make it happen or do they have any contact with a railway they would like to run it on.

Of course there is a cheaper version and that would be to built it yourself in your own workshop. Which in effect Workshop X will be doing for the L&BR if you wanted all four built in one batch, you would be looking at around £6 million pounds and what project has that sort of money to throw at four brand new steam locos this day and age?

It is understandable why parts for all four are being produce at the same time.

I am sure that Jon Pain would welcome your donation to the Manning Wardle fund should you so chose to support it.

 

Not forgetting the lovely brand-new "Prairie" that I understand is just a few miles away, just needs a boiler...............

Cheerz,

Alan

 

Sorry Colin, but once again your own ideas are running away with you.

When you mention 'research', is this proper research, like hunting down drawings and checking availability of materials/processes required?
I assume these are proper estimates from established engineering companies capable of building the locos?

That has nothing to do with the L&B locos

Well if those people that want to build these locos have done their research and believe that they are feasible and they have the finances to do it, then let them work away - I don't see why their projects need to be linked to the L&B

Yes £6M is a lot of money and no-one has that sort of cash lying around, but then they don't need to, as the first stage is 2 locos and the build is planned over many years with the cost split over many people. Incidentally the 762 club estimates each loco's cost at £0.5M not £1.5M

 

Just how long ago was that quoted? Building a 2ft gauge steam loco is certainly not going to be cheap if you go via a commercial builder.

£6 million is the price if each loco had to be built as a one off, but in this case they are being batch build which will bring the cost down.

With Workshop X becoming involved this will reduce the cost even further.

As I understand it Boston Lodge will produce all the parts required and will also build one loco, Workshop X is to build a second one and a review about the other two will take place as and when it is suitable to do so, which still leaves a black hole to fill with cash.



All I can say is that there are other people who have concerns about how all of this is being carried out and have as yet to have a discussion about this.



It should not come as a surprise to see that the same people involved with the Main L&BR Trust are the same people involved with the 762 Club and what you see is just a repeat of what is happening at the trust itself.

 

We'd all been wondering what had become of Stuart Reeder, now we know!

 

Until the Lynton and Barnstaple becomes a two engine railway (as in two locomotives are needed to run a service from Woody Bay to Blackmoor) then the justification for the Manning Wardle's on a purely commercial level is very weak, with Lyn, Axe, and hopefully Sir George soon being more than capable than running the existing railway. There is a strong argument to having one Manning Wardle at Woody Bay as a nice to have, but not two.

That being said, the current activity around getting bits is the correct one, and hopefully in the next few years assembly might be able to start on Yeo.

Additionally, I would have thought there is some possibility to hiring an engine on a medium term basis from somewhere like Statfold Barn or the FfWHR if the L&B doesn't have enough motive power to run an extended railway.

 

I thought they were sorted for motive power - there are a Darjeeling 'C' class 4-6-2 Tender loco and a Darjeeling 'D' Garratt, a 2-4-4T Forney, a ww 1 Baldwin/Alco/ Davenport 2-6-2T design, a modern version of the old WHR 0-6-4ST Beddgelert, a Manning Wardle 2-6- 4T SAR, a 4-4-0 Lawley class, a Moroccan 0-6-0+0-6-0 see details below and a number of 2ft gauge Bagnall locos all due to come - apparently.

Tom

 

Well Tom we will have to wait and see, the reason why I mentioned them is because there are those out there that would like to see them built. I do get the impression however that some of these schemes have done the rounds at other railway before they finally contacted me.

I would like nothing more than to have an open workshop in Devon where such projects could be built, But some of these projects can be taken with a pinch of salt.

The two projects which I think could make it are the SAR Lawley 4-4-0 and the Maine 2ft gauge Forney, both could be built to match LYN's power output without to much difficulty to be honest and I would also guess that both would be popular as visiting locos.

As for the success of them now owning DHR 19B the 19B Trust, has hinted that may be one day a C and a D class DHR locos could both be recreated for use in the UK. Of course as GA drawing's still exist for both of those locos that is a start. But it will be the detailed engineering drawings that will need to be recreated if both are to be built.

One project which is beginning to take on traction and again I have no input into the group at present, but they want to build a number of Manning Wardle locos showing the long term development up to and including the L&BR 2-6-2T.

The first such project is known as the 'Locke' class an 0-4-0st it could best discribe it as looking like an early Hunslet Quarry 0-4-0st and they were built in 1874.

The second proposal which has been suggested is a copy of the SAR 0-4-0T 'Midget' class loco.

The third loco is knowns as a 'MW Special' yet another 0-4-0st but this time looking about the same size as the ladies class on the FR or the Mills class in the North Wales quarries.

The forth loco in this project that has been suggested is an Egyptian Fayoum Agricultural Light Railway 4-4-0T.

These locos would then be followed up by two of the bigger MW locos, one being a copy of the SAR 2ft gauge 2-6-4T and the other a copy of the Indian 0-6-2 tender loco which were built just before the L&BR ordered their 2-6-2T's.

It has long been argued that the Indian connection was the main reason behind why only 3 2-6-2T where built as they were part of a failed overseas order and also why they were so cheap at the time.

One last update on the proposed Beddgelert project, it has been known for some time that the Hunslet Loco co produced three set's of proposals for locos on the L&BR, more than a few years ago it was suggested that if the L&BR was to build one or more of the Hunslet designs it might be possible to build at the same time an updated version of Beddgelert since many of the parts would be the same. As far as I know nothing has happen with this project for sometime, but again it would make for some interesting engineering work.

But not running away with myself I do realise that it is cheap to talk but expensive to build, so just how many if at all get built we shall have to wait and see what happens

 

Did you ever wonder why these 'projects' had done the rounds? Could it possibly be because they're unfeasible...

Could you please point to where the 19b group have mentioned new builds? I've seen nothing to that effect and the fact that they're currently fundraising for £250,000 to repay loans and pay for the next overhaul, would tell me that they have other things on their minds.

Oh, and having a GA drawing is a very long way from making a project feasible.

As for having an open workshop in Devon to build these projects, have you recently won the lottery and trained a group of engineers who want (and can afford) to live in Devon?

On your last point, I will wager one of @Steve's Mars bars that none of them ever get built.

 

Are these going to be built in a workshop in the Philippines by a group of Swiss enthusiasts?

Lord alive, is this the fantasy railway league thread?

 

I can't imagine why, but when I read some of Lynbarn's posts the lyrics of a 1970's hit by Supertramp start running through my mind (and I'm not talking about Breakfast in America)!

 

You have decided to start a fund to pay for all these projects, yes?
Hence the apposite words:
Oh Give a little bit
I'll give a little bit of my life for you
So give a little bit
Oh, give a little bit of your time to me .....
Its got to be that, or "The Crime of the Century"

 

Like I said above. I am just told about these projects and I have nothing to do with them, what others want to spend their money on is up to them. It is hard enough raising money for the L&B as it is.

The thing is everyone has a dream loco they want to build, and I am sure we all know someone who has made various suggestions over time on your own personal railway, you only have to search the internet to look up all the no hoper standard gauge projects that have been announced over the past few years.

Many of these projects may well go ahead at some point, who knows? As an example many years ago it was suggested that the FR would like to run four Fairlies, well they are almost there on this as you have:-

No. 10, Merddin Emrys in service
No. 11, Earl of Merioneth in long term storage
No. 12, David Lloyd George in service
No. 8, James Spooner which is under construction but hopefully will be working next year.

With 8, 10 and 12 in service next year and with some talk by a few supporters on the FR indicating that a fund may be set up to restore the Square much sooner than planned. It must have been taken seriously since they plan to carry out a review of what is needed to get her back into working order, including the construction of a new pair of power bogies if required.

 

Despite the ramblings of Gordon Rushton you're unlikely to see four Double Fairlies any time soon. I expect the next major investment will be to complete the second new boiler for Merddin Emrys once the one on JS has a few years on the clock. Maybe then someone could rebuild Merddins old boiler for use on the Square. It won't be cheap though. The fund you speak of has about £400 in it mostly for selling badges in protest of the new loco being built.

Try to remember though that the FR has a fleet to look after that is every bit as big as Statfold Barn, yet the locos are asked to do a lot more. It is a lot to manage and non essentials like four Double Fairlies don't happen without people, money and space to do it.

Pie in the sky loco projects are easy to dream up when you're railway is only a mile long. As the line grows so will the to do list. You'll definitely have a lot things that need a million quid spending on that aren't Darjeeling Garratts.

 

Thanks Meeee, you are right about pie in the sky dreams, the L&BR has been linked to so many in the past that I have lost count of them all.

I guess that it mostly started when the late Peter Rampton was looking to buy Blackmoor as a new centre for Collection X. But he couldn't get the then North Devon District Council to agree to the scheme, as it was not long after the scandal of the old Ilfracombe line project fell through.

I often wonder what we would all be thinking if it had happen and what a difference it would have made to the rebuilding of the L&BR itself.

Because it didn't happen we ended up with both the Brecon Mountain and the Launceston steam railways as well. Also not forgetting the take over of the Vale of Rheidol railway as well.
It is strange how things work out.

 

The suggestion is that with fuel quality and availability becoming more of a challenge, the bigger locos (i.e. Fairlies) might be needed more.
Hence a minimum of two of them in service, and ideally three, becomes quite important.

With that in mind, and in view of how popular EoM is, I think a return to service at some point is quite likely.

However, I doubt it will be for a while. As well as James Spooner II (great loco but why oh why not call it Charles Easton Spooner?), there's Linda being slowly overhauled, Prince and Palmerston both due an overhaul, and Mountaineer is the "heart over head" project at the moment.

Let's see how things go. At the moment for most railways just focusing on medium term survival is the order of the day.

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It was reassuring to see, on a FB video, that progress is being made on the machining of the hornguides, axleboxes and underkeeps for these two locomotives.