Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

I'm concerned at the regular suggestions that the pub business could fail. Of course there is always a possibility but most of the recent batch of failures have been due to the ongoing effect of trade lost due to Covid restrictions combined with intransigent pub chain owners who have not supported their landlords. OSHI was privately owned, has survived the Covid period and appears to have recovered much of its tourist trade. Unless some new threat emerges there is no reason to think that, given good management, it should not be able to trade profitably in the future.

 

I think the main reason people are concerned as to if the pub will fail is because on top of the day to day running costs there is somewhere in the region of £830k in loans to be serviced on top, the previous owners may have had the pub for over 20 years but I doubt very much that they paid a hefty premium when they bought the place, from memory it was a very different place 35 years ago to what it was 10 years ago and what it is now

 

The problem is the loan tat has to be repaid, For the record, ii don't think anyone wants the OSHI to fail, because it would set in chain a domino effect, that could adversely effect the L&B should that happen, there would need to be some very harsh decisions to be made, to protect black moor and the existing line, but it could also be the thing that brings about the change , as i would imagine some trustees will be rightly blamed and made to carry the responsibility for their own lack of foresight, but then the trust will have to rebuild from a very low point.

 

If I've understood right, the damage has actually already been done - the cash has been used, and failure to recover it would now crystallise costs, rather than mean the loss of actual money. The consequences, on the other hand, would be significant and widespread.

 

I can assurer you that I don't want it to fail but this is a matter of concern to me, since as others have pointed out there has been very little in the way of information given to the membership about the deal, I don't need to have 50 pages of accounts to make it right, but some assurance from the trustees as to what they have done and to also realise what they have committed them and the whole L&BR project too would help to settle some nerves I would think.

There are in general two major purchases most people will make during their lives one is a car and the second is a house, I have just recently purchased a new second hand car and I feel happy about it, since I was able to do the research into its background.

The difference with OSHI is that I have yet to see any plans from the trust when it come to looking at all the options for its ownership, was it a good deal for the railway? did we over pay for it? should we have walked away from the deal? What planning has been done for both the best and the worst case scenario's, what plans have they got in place to make a go of it? how much extra is all this renovation going to cost, What is the time table to rebuild the railway at Blackmoor? Finally how are we going to fund this and what is the plan for doing so?

I am sure others will have their concerns and questions to add to the list, but what happens to Woody Bay and the railway if this all goes wrong? Is there enough of a gap to protect the railway from the pub if the worst happens.

I do realise that there is a risk to all of this but what sort of legal advice has been taken and are the trustee aware of what they have committed themselves to? If the plan was to set up an arms length PLC to purchase and run the Pub then that would be find. But my concern comes back to the loan that the Trust has given since it appears there may be a lot of people out there who have not invested in this, due to having their concerns as well, and the trust has been put in the position of having to make up the difference for the purchase price of OSHI.

It makes me wonder if due to having to use Trust money to buy OSHI, does the membership still have any faith left in the Trustees? and what about Plan C is this still part of it or has that now also changed.

As Chris Duffield has already asked for and we are yet to get a reply can we just stop and take stock of where we are and what option are open to us. You don't need to know that I have been a life member for over 40 years and I joined as soon as I found out about the project, I think I have a right to be concerned just how this project is being managed.

 

Well, back in Essex after a cracking Gala at the weekend, the BBQ sold out, the tearooms sold out pretty much, and the barrels at the bar well tipped!

Lots of visitors with lots of smiling faces, and lots of friends met old and new (sorry I couldn't get round to everyone ).

Overall a great atmosphere, a great success despite the Ffestiniog engines having to be withdrawn from service lunchtime on the Sunday due to problems (and quite rightly so).

Can't wait until next time, such a morale boost to be there and I hope also a boost for the volunteers and staff at all the L&B locations.

A great week for me in North Devon

There is lots to do! Be good everyone

 

Not to mention the dividends expected by the £1,060,983 worth of B shareholders (including £203,000 owned by the Trust) mentioned by @Tobbes in message 10586. They will be hoping for a return on their business investment. And maybe the Trust on it's £50,000 investment of A shares. And, of course there is a need to make a further £25,000 profit (=cash) to pay the 10 year annual repayment on the loan by the Trust.

 

While they may expect a dividend, it is at least the risk you take when investing that the business may not be able to pay one.

It's not as if there isn't a precedent for long-term disappointing investment returns in businesses on Exmoor, after all!

Tom

 

I recently received an email from the L&B Blackmoor Co. asking if I was interested in following up on an old enquiry I had made about potentially buying shares in OSHI. I declined the offer on the basis of the apparently poor behaviour of some of the Trustees of the L&B (including the closing of ranks against the new Trustees) and the lack of transparency about the financial arrangements of the Trust and OSHI.

I sincerely hope the OSHI is a success but this is a significant undertaking and it requires a sound business plan and experienced commercial people to lead it. OSHI needs to perform very well indeed to cover its operational costs & taxes, to service its debt and to generate cash to carry it through the quieter winter months (with sufficient funds set aside for future repairs) before even contemplating a dividend. Members and shareholders rightly deserve to be informed of the financial risks and opportunities and the proposals for developing the business.

 

I too had expressed interest in investing a year or three ago, being half inclined to, as something to help the L&B with a possibility of dividends. I too received that recent email. As it happens I have had some heavy expenditure recently on other things, but even if I were looking for a speculative investment just now OSHI would not come high on the list.

 

I am not wishing to hijack this thread but I wonder what the L&BR Trustees would think if we had this as well:-

https://www.wsrht.co.uk/board-meetings/

 

"..... we need a plan that everyone can understand and make it their own ...." This I very much like, I fear the obvious main drive is being lost in distraction, however vital the the details are. Proverbially: "the wood cannot be seen for the trees"

 

What do you regard as the obvious main drive and what do you regard as distractions?

 

The obvious main drive is extending south. The distractions are that it is evident it has got stuck, that there is considerable detailed support for disquiet and on these implications however justly or not fingers are being pointed: unluckily members of the public who need to be won over, may try to understand this, attempt to get their heads round the details and finding it beyond them, go and do something else, rather than having at least a benign outlook on the extension if not necessarily active supporters. It is not entirely reasonable but people may react to attempts to explain as badgering them & react against the persuasion. Just not want to know. Careful of engaging in a squabble.

There is a lot on this thread - certainly over months and lots of entries - which I have seriously tried to follow, but the amount, and trying to be sure who is replying to whom and over what, is rather overwhelming. I do get a clear sense that something serious needs to be addressed and who makes comments - like Tobbes - that I take seriously.

There are genuine and obvious difficulties: in general public terms with people coming to the railway - by car especially - and for the railway in not being able to extend by fairly short instalments - if the Grampian conditions lapse with the planning permission that imposed then, and they cannot be/are not reimposed, the lapse may be a blessing in disguise - despite if extending through the National Park, no more stations where people can start a journey are allowed on the way. On the bright side the line would acceptably augment transport within the National Park especially if it can get a station in Lynton and what has been secured underneath the viaduct at Chelfham is inspired - to extend there should be a major goal in the longer term.

 

Excuse me for not being completely au fait with 548 pages of discussion, but given the apparent difficulties in getting through Parracombe why isn't the railway concentrating efforts in the Lynton direction? I know there's a couple of difficult road realignments to navigate, but I'd have thought there's significantly more potential passengers at that end than Blackmoor Gate?

 

The Trust ran a "consultation" of members in the spring, which trustees (John Barton in particular) spoke to at the AGM. What was said at the AGM confirmed the suspicion from the consultation papers that the focus is intensely on linking back to Blackmoor Gate, for what I understand to be two key reasons:
1. The sheer amount of work done on the previous planning application, meaning that linking up to Blackmoor has practical advantages.
2. Very little serious work has been done hitherto on the section towards Lynton, including land purchase.

Personally, I would also add two further factors:
1. The challenge of setting a terminus at Lynton given ownership of the old station and the difficulties of getting into the centre.
2. Running a railway largely reliant on car borne traffic entirely within the Exmoor National Park area.

My take is that any switch towards Lynton would be a dramatic change of strategy, and following it would require acknowledging a serious risk that the railway would be limited to the Woody Bay to Lynton section.

 

Thanks! I don't see how a Woody Bay-Wistlandpound railway would be any less reliant on cars than a Lynton-Killington Lane railway though? If anything, the opposite - Lynton and Lynmouth are very well served by buses along the coast from Minehead and Ilfracombe, at least in the summer.

 

Just remember that the National Park ends at the Blackmoor Gate junction, so a P&R operation from Blackmoor Gate would not add additional traffic to the National Park.

 

@Hirn Thanks for the clarification. My thought would be that the last x hundred pages is firstly a discussion about how the next move is not in fact obvious.

The suggestion of extending towards Lynton instead needs careful consideration, as do all other options. What has happened is a knee jerk reaction (to extend to CFL) with no clarity whatsoever about how that could be delivered either in terms of being accepted locally or funded.

There are many options. I feel that the current board may simply have run out of steam to properly consider and balance the risks and opportunities and find the best pathway.

 

Indeed. As I see it, the key point in the 'business plan' has to be the way in which the rebuilt railway can help to reduce traffic in the Park, hence the need to have the P&R at BR rather than anywhere further north. Of course, there is the dichotomy that railway needs to attract visitors in order to survive and flourish, and in so doing it will increase the amount of traffic heading towards North Devon, but at least it can try to keep that out of the ENPA.

In order to do so then the railway must address the 'elephant in the room', namely the need to own all the trackbed necessary for it to get through Parracombe. Barring some sort of miracle, it would seem clear that the answer - however unpalatable it might seem - lies with the acquisition of a TWAO and associated CP powers. IMHO it is time for the Trust to grasp that nettle very firmly and just get on with the task. OK, so we may perhaps upset a few residents at PE, but - let's be honest - has not the railway done that already anyway, so will it make much difference?