CME 2023

When you continue on about diesel assitance, and it being OTT/Unnecessary/Show Ponies, etc do you ever stop to consider the huge consequences of a train slipping to a stand and being unable to restart?

£65 per minute a charter delay costs. As those up when your charter slips to a stand because “we haven’t put a diesel on to please the purists”. Then consider how many purists actually travel. And suddenly it’s really not worth the risks. Might have been okay back in 2010 with less trains on the network, less costs, etc. But it’s a modern world now with modern costs.

Racking up even an hours delay will be £3900. How many tickets is that?

 

Well to state the obvious, is it not down to WCRC to decide whether or not "it is really worth the risks", as they have done successfully for numerous railtours which have run without a diesel all through the last few months? Attaching a diesel costs WCRC (and the promotor) money, it has to be crewed and fueled, and they have always said it will only happen if necessary which of course it frequently will be for numerous reasons we are all aware of. What exactly is the problem here for you?

 

I don’t have a problem, other than those who go on about the rear end diesel being unnecessary/unwanted. They must accept when they book it’s a risk. Particularly in fire risk and leaf fall. Personally I prefer having the security and safety of a tail end loco

 

A while back Mr Shuttleworth came on NP saying a diesel was insisted for a certain tour ( can’t remember which) by Network Rail at the last minute with West Coast having things taken out of there hands so I suppose at this time of year you take a risk when booking to get diesel a free tour but most folk don’t give a monkeys what’s on the back as long as they have steam so it’s a bit like the Northern Belle in some respects. Personally it doesn’t bother me as I’ve been on a few tours that have had assistance but it didn’t spoil the experience of the day

 

I agree Steve. You can’t book a tour these days and expect to have solo steam. The fire risk season is now a long, vast one and during that time it’s more than likely. Similarly leaf fall is a lengthy period and again it just might be required.

I don’t ever think the diesel spoils the trip. Wrong thread, but LSL with Gresley over the S&C I was 2 coaches from the diesel and it barely made a noise. Wouldn’t have known it was there.

 

I think you spoil your case by overstatement. What you say is true of several months in the year. But it is still true that if you book a WCR operated tour in April, May, June and September and you study the previous history at particular destinations, you can book a trip with a high chance of solo steam. In the summer, you can wait and see if it is a wet summer like this year. On Vintage, they are quite upfront about their intentions. I hope WCR and Vintage are able as commercial businesses to justify continuing with their stated intentions. But there is always a risk, that has to be accepted by the punters.

 

How many steam hauled railtours have you done? How old are you? In 39 years of travelling we've had less than a dozen occasions where steam locomotives have slipped to a stand. I have a mega spreadsheet with data on from 1984. And how do you know how many pursists travel? By travelling with Saphos?

 

Yes but we aren’t in 1984. And the risks accepted in 1984 won’t be accepted now. It’s fact. We are in a changed world. Train lengths, diesel assistance and so on are to be determined case by case.

I’ve travelled with Saphos, WCRC, Vintage and DB. I can’t actually tell you how many. I would imagine it’s around 50 but I don’t keep record.

LSL tried going without a diesel, Britannia stalled in leaf fall. Diesels have been a thing since. It’s a back up. Although you’ll be telling me the driver was incapable next

 

Guys there's a thread for this topic, please continue there. We've been over it a thousand times and it won't change anything.

 

Unfortunately the railway has changed a lot since 1984. If a steam hauled train sits down on the main line where is the nearest rescue loco? If it’s a VT or WC working the nearest vacuum equipped loco could be even further away. If a unit is in section behind it the rescue would have to be undertaken wrong line.
Just be thankful that nearly 30 years after Dick Hardy predicted the end of mainline steam its still here and there are people who take on the difficult and tiring task of keeping it running

 

Hear hear! The last sentence in particular seems to be continually lost on a number of people.

 

Just to add, maybe the time has come to appreciate the opportunities when the diesel can be left behind. As has been the case a number of times this year.

 

I actually don’t disagree with you. I think the earlier you can tell the punters the better. But if it’s a decision made within 48 hours I don’t think that should be a expectation.

 

RTT not showing an Appleby Water Stop on the return tomorrow.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U55139/2023-10-07/detailed

 

Well that would point towards it being the Bulleid.

 

I thought that is what post #740 says

 

Confirmed 35018 as far as I know