Tornado

2 years is actually quite a good turn around for a 10 yearly overhaul. The only thing the A1 Trust are guilty of is gross over ambition..

 

From my understanding there were a fair few things found which hadn’t been factored in, iirc didn’t the wheels need cracks welding up? Plus, there were things which were a carry over from the earliest days in the build which hadn’t held up as well as May as been expected. Big locos are complex animals and some bits probably hadn’t seen the light of day for 15 years! Of course the tubes issue certainly added some time.

 

Let's hope the boiler woes are over, been rather a bigger job than anyone would have anticipated when the loco was being dismantled.

 

The A1 Trust was asked to partner with ECDP to fully install ETCS to allow the A1 to function on routes where traditional signalling had been removed. A significant amount of time and effort was devoted to changes to the locomotive and tender in order to make enough space available for the equipment, this includes changes to cupboards, conduits and pipework. By Feb. of this year the first components were reported as being installed in the tender locker. With this being the first installation on a steam locomotive it might well not have gone smoothly - the A1 would be very different to any other locomotive that ECDP had to deal with. The important thing is for this installation to be successful because this will confirm that the technology can be fitted to steam locomotives. If the trial proves to work with both Class 8 and Class 5 locomotives (a pair of Black Fives should be fitted too) this will go towards guaranteeing that steam can function on the mainline for a few years longer. The installation working in a satisfactory manner is far more important in the steam world scheme of things than the time taken over fitting the equipment and completing the modifications.

 

Is UK the only country, so far, to trial fit ETCS to steam? If so, there will be a lot of people in Germany &c., waiting to see how we get on.
Pat

 

This future proofing is all well and good but while Tornado isn't working and earning money plus the cost of all this extra work must surely be putting a strain on income and reserves?

 

What would you prefer them to do?
Just keep running and keep their fingers crossed that somehow the signalling will all magically sort itself out, be cheap as chips and take 5 mins with a screwdriver to fit?
I think you need a reality check.

Oh and I'm sure the A1 Trust will greatly appreciate the generous donation you'll be sending them as you are very concerned for their financial wellbeing.

 

As an electrical engineer of many years experience I know full well about retrofitting latest tech to last century machinery and the problems involved.
Never said they shouldn't undertake this work, yes without it the ecml will become out of bounds without modern traction as a pilot as witnessed around Rotterdam quite a few years ago.
Reading the stuff from NRM it states that Scotsman will be fitted with this tech too.
My point was merely, no actually a question about the financial viability for an organisation like the A1 trust to pioneer this application to steam traction.
Overhaul is the ideal time to physically do the install.
It's not something that can be done between wash outs.
As for financial contributions, that's my business.

 

From the published accounts (e.g. fye 31 March 2019, 2020 and 2022), it is not obvious that Tornado does "earn money" when operating, taking the breakdown in Note 6 Income from trading activities for Tornado Steam Traction as a proxy for this. (It is not clear whether these analyses include depreciation which would reduce the cash loss if it does). There is an overlap here into the debate on trustees' fiscal responsibility v. apparent objectives on the L&B thread and one suspects that it is not quite as clear cut in reality as suggested. It would be interesting to know what their projections are for the upcoming operating period and the extent to which they rely on donations.

 

As this a 'first in class' installation, then don't Network Rail pay, at least in part? It's certainly the case for the current fleets (eg Class 66).
Pat

 

What’s the expression about doing it once and doing it right?

 

You can't do anything without the money to fund it.

 

It’s not all from one revenue stream though is it?

 

As has been said the legacy contributions will probably get less as time goes along. Those of us that can remember working steam are becoming fewer at quite an alarming rate tbh.
There are the regular contributions and the one off contributions. Obviously merchandise too.
Can't think of any other revenue streams at the moment?
I wonder what the figures are regarding refunds for tours canceled?
We are supposed to be in a financial crisis and alot of the population are just not giving or spending.
Everything seems to be labelled as a crisis these days though.

 

That's often asserted, but is there any evidence for the proposition?

The National Trust continues to receive legacies to support the upkeep of seventeenth century country houses. I rather doubt that those legacies are coming from those who remember living in such buildings form their youth - though they may be coming from those who enjoyed visiting them as attractions centuries later and remain nostalgic for those visits.

Why should it be different for steam? Someone who visited a preserved railway as a young child in 1980 never knew mainline steam; but if it kindled a lifelong interest, why shouldn't they in their turn leave a legacy in twenty or thirty years time when they die? It seems unnecessarily defeatist - and I suspect not backed by evidence - to assume that the only people sufficiently impassioned by steam to leave a legacy are those who knew it in main line days.

Tom

 

I agree in principle.

However, I think @Big Al is onto something as the generation who were motivated to prevent the outright loss of steam pass on, and the peak of involvement they represent diminishes.

I also think you may be unduly sanguine about prospects for another reason - the demographic and economic changes - oft bewailed on here for their effect on the availability of volunteers - which may affect how much legacy income is available to charities rather than staying within families.

 

There may be structural changes to the total amount of legacies available in the future - but I think it is dangerously wrong to come to the view that somehow only "real steam" can be sufficiently motivating to encourage donation of those legacies that are available.

Tom

 

As I said, I agree with the principle of your comment - the presumption of what I'll call the "1968 generation" that the end of mainline steam was a fundamental divide has been disproven in multiple ways, and is no more valid here.

 

Correct .60163,44932 and 55022 are all test beds for initial installations.