7027 Thornbury Castle

I know some people who refer to them as "wrecked" ...

Locos, particularly in large classes, show variations in time as new examples are built; and also have periodic rebuilds that may change some features. I'd suggest that a Caprotti Black 5 is at least as far removed from the first Black 5 prototype as a rebuilt Merchant Navy is from an original, yet I don't think anyone would refer to them as anything other than a "StanierBlack 5" -- even though they were built long after he retired and had some quite fundamental differences to his original design. By contrast, the changes between an original and rebuilt Bulleid pacific, while significant in some ways, actually represent a rather small amount of the total metal.

Tom

 

If you don’t mind me asking, who’s ‘they’?
Some of us really have no idea who ‘they’ are and it’s really perplexing to quite a few of ‘us’

 

Much has been said on this thread, from various points of view, on the rights and wrongs of using Thornbury Castle's boiler for 4709. Does anyone have any genuinely new thoughts to offer?

 

I’d guess ‘they’ are this lot:
https://www.4709.org.uk/
Their Aug ‘23 update makes it fairly clear what ‘they’ intend to do with 7027’s boiler. It also says the other bits of the loco won’t be wasted but I remain to be convinced.

 

Really??

 

Yes ‘Really’

 

Incredible.

 

What is? Look I don’t fully understand what the situation is because it’s not very clear, are the 47 group a stand alone group or are they a splinter group of the GWS?
From what I’ve seen from the last update on the 4709 group page with a quote from someone who I believe is GWS chairman the boiler from 7027 is in ‘surprisingly good condition’ yet you say ‘it has been deteriorating outside for the last 60 years’

I like to think I keep reasonably up to date with what’s happening with both the Big Railway and in Pres, but with this, there’s so many shades of grey, it’s like trying to watch Pulp Fiction but walking out before the end.

You obviously have connections with those at Didcot and want to defend them which is fair enough to a degree but can you not understand why some people think this whole situation stinks?

 

If you think it is quite simple, who actually owns 4709 and, separately, 7027? I certainly don't know.

 

I thought it was fairly well known that the group was asscosiated with the GWS?

I cant understand why or what situation people think stinks to be honest.
The 4709 group was set up by people who wanted to build a 4700, it is funded by people who put their hand in their pockets regularly and pay for the project because they also want to see a 4700 built.
As the project continues to raise significant funds for the project and the purchase of 7027 the sponsors are obviously happy.
Those who have no interest in a 4700 would obviously not put any money in, so why should they continually bemoan the project and the peolpe who do?

 

Do you need to?

 

I’d say it’s rather important if your appealing for donations.

 

If you're asking for my money I'm going to ask who you are. So, yes, I think potential donors do need to know who the team behind the project are.

 

I don't need to know but am interested, just like a lot of other people. It is a simple question so why be so secretive? The very fact that it is apparently so secretive says a lot.

There have been several locos where ultimate ownership has been both a surprise and a problem when the facts emerged.

 

I Agree, but I think it is fair to say from previous comments that have been made, the person who asked the question will not be donating to this project.

I believe the 4709 website does have a 'contact us' facility so presumably any potential donors could ask whatever questions they like?

 

Deleted

 

Hang on a second.
Surely it does matter who technically owns it?

If, for instance, it is a group of people who say they want to build a loco, set up a charity and go it on their own, they can do whatever they want.

However say its a group who decide to start off as a splinter group from a larger organisation, to avoid having to set up a company or charity to make it easier, and to also give themselves more credibility, then they cant just go and do whatever they want as they are also part of the larger organisation and have to uphold the morals of that larger organisation. You can massively effect the larger organisations reputation.

 

Quite. It's also of rather more than passing interest for the accounts. If you have done £1m of fundraising and used it to buy or construct assets worth £1m, it's rather important whose accounts those assets are shown in. So are 4709 and 7027 GWS assets - or not?

Tom

 

There is a real reluctance to answer the simple question of ownership and it does make me and many others wonder why. Perhaps the simple answer is that no one knows and, if that’s the case, the can of worms is even bigger.

 

Maybe you should look up the word transparency?
That might explain a few things.