Steam speed records including City of Truro and Mallard

Cox.Locomotive Panorama Vol1.Near end of chapter III,The Midland Years 26-30

 

Nice picture of something that can run 40m/sec over 40km level.(Almost)
When and where was picture taken?

 

Did the SR do high speed? There were some fast runs right at the end of steam in 1967 when it was obvious that time was running out, but in SR days, there was a blanket ban of 90mph and not, I don't think, much interest in record breaking. Even Bulleid's pacifics weren't described by him as "streamlined" and weren't consciously designed to be out and out fast. Maunsell designed teh Lord Nelsons with, as I recall, a putative 500 ton / 55mph schedule for the Dover boat trains, but achieving that was a matter of quick acceleration and high climbing speeds, not ultra-fast top speeds. Apart from anything else, there were relatively few places on the SR where really high speeds could be attained, due to the not having the right combination of gradient, freedom from junctions and freedom from other traffic.

From an advertising point of view, you can market yourself on speed, reliability or frequency. Most SR advertising makes a big play on frequency. The Brighton electric was advertised with "You don't need a timetable" - the inference being that if you missed a train, you wouldn't have to wait long for another one. Note that it wasn't particularly advertised on speed.

Tom

 

There was quite a lot of national pride at stake with speed records in the inter-war years, though it played out more with cars and aeroplanes than with trains - not least because there were more clearly defined conditions as to what constituted a record, rather than "what's the terminal velocity of 400 tons of metal dropped over a cliff ..." Of course with aeroplanes (and to an extent cars powered by aero engines) there were military applications which made supporting such efforts of more interest to governments.

As far as cars go, the British largely had that sown up, taking cars first to Pendine Sands in Wales, and then - as the speeds outgrew the length available there - to Daytona Beach and then Bonneville Salt Flats in the US. The Germans - with Nazi pride at stake - invested very heavily in Grand Prix racing in the 1930s, and Mercedes then developed a car for an attempt at the Land Speed Record, which was to have been carried out on a section of new Autobahn. The engine was a modified aero engine, as was common in the era. The publicity value from beating the record with a German car and German engine on German roads is obvious; however, shortly before the attempt the record was beaten twice in quick succession by the British and pushed out to a point far beyond what the Germans had planned to achieve (550km/h) and that - along with the outbreak of war - caused the record attempt to be shelved. The car survived the war hidden away and still exists, minus engine, at the Mercedes museum in Germany.

On the aeroplane side, to an extent the story was reversed. The British and Italians had traded the record during the period of the Schneider Trophy using sea planes, with the British achieving 407mph in 1931 and shortly afterwards the Italian Macchi M72 reaching 440mph in 1934, powered by what was in effect two linked V12 engines driving a pair of contra-rotating props. At the time the land plane record was about 350mph, held by Howard Hughes and there then arose considerable interest in breaking that figure. (The record conditions required flights at low altitude, where there is more drag - always worth remembering when considering aeroplane records). In 1937 the Germans took a modified Bf 109 and pushed the record to 379mph. The British then took a Spitfire and cleaned it up aerodynamically, tuned the engine etc. with the intention of setting a record in the region of 400mph. However, before they could attempt the record, the Germans pushed the record firstly to 463mph and then 469mph; there was no possibility the modified Spitfire would get remotely close to those records, so the attempt was dropped. The German aircraft for those latter records were specially constructed racing prototypes, but were given designations (and, in subsequent propaganda photos, markings) to give the appearance that they were modified production fighters.

Tom

 

Legend, thank you.

 

There was a blanket ban of 85mph maximum anywhere on the SR continued on
by BR (S). Running up to that speed over considerable distances occurred. regularly
Ashford to Tonbridge, less so in the Down direction, Roundwood to Swaythling and
Basingstoke to Hampton Court Junction.

There were of course occasions when higher speeds occurred. Derek Winkworth
timed Clan Line at 104 mph past Axminster and Norman Harvey and others
timed Sam Gingell rocketing through Farningham Road at 94mph.

Until the last twelve months I only noted 90mph twice over a decade of timing,
and one wasputative, behind a Schools on the 2.42 Margate CX at Headcorn, the
other on the ACE between Sidmouth Jct and Salisbury in 1955.

87/88 mph several times on the Bournemouth route.

During the period of the last WTT (June 1966 to the end ) regularly 90 and more,
particularly after the long welded track was installed on the through lines from
Basingstoke to Woking. There was one day towards the end when we touched 95
Down past Wallers Ash, on the 8.35 ex Waterloo , 90 on the UP return ex
Bournemouth at Fleet and finally after a return to Bournemouth behind a Brush 4
92 mph in the evening UP at Fleet behind 35007. These were all 11/12 coach trains.

Not as reckless as it might appear; although technically the 85 mph limit still
existed on the Weymouth route, the Waterloo Bournemouth section was then
ready for 100 mph electric running..

Michael Rowe

ps the most unlikely ‘eighty’ I ever timed was 82mph between Hever and Ashurst
behind a rebuilt light pacific on the 6.10pm Victoria to Brighton via Eridge.
One of the few occasions I experienced what to me appeared an uncomfortable
ride in the carriage.

 

Precisely what I had in mind - I remember many trips round the aeronautical gallery in the Science Museum as a kid, where the Schneider Trophy and S6B had pride of place. That's why I feel I'm missing something with a focus on what may have been said in 1946, when Mallard's run was no longer news.

 

Just on a point of detail, I thought that the Bournemouth electrification only raised permissible speeds to 90mph, and that it was the 1980s upgrade (with new cl. 442 units) that brought in authorised 100mph running?

 

But then you are going, I assume, on average speeds achieved over the distance for the Cheltenham Flyer, rather than any absolute speeds, which I think it could be argued, the Cheltenham Flyer was not a particularly fast train.

But it is worth a reminder that the top speed is not always the headliner!

 

Indeed.
At that time Peter Pescod (former DCE, South Western Division) was the Consultant CE of the Watercress Line. On one of our days out with the Plasser Liner he commented on the credit for the first 100mph section being taken by the present CE set-up. It took many years of planning renewals to a higher standard (26 & 28 sleepers / length*) to lay the ground work.
Pat
* He called it the Pescod Standard, as the rest of BR pooh-poohed the need. And then followed suit!

 

That's the irony isn't it. No top speed can compensate for the 20mph restriction through Peterborough to take just one example.

 

Is that the pace my train normally crawls through on the Down Main as the signallers remember it's there and think about clearing the peg?

 

Genuinely amazed to hear that the Watercress line has a 100mph section…

Simon

 

Re the SR and Bulleid pacifics - there were several high speed runs recorded in the last few weeks (before drivers retired?). On 26th June 1967, 35003 Royal Mail reached 106mph around Fleet and had an average speed of 102.28 between MP 39 and MP34. It was also recorded at 105mph two days later, on June 28th, with the same driver. (Ref "The Twilight of Southern Steam).

 

I did have a fairly rapid run along there many years ago behind 3440 with Ray Towell driving, not quite a ton though.

 

From Wikipedia:

On Monday, 6 June 1932, the train broke railway speed records with a time of 56 mins 47 seconds at an average speed of 81.6 miles per hour (131.3 km/h).[4] Such a journey speed had never been previously recorded and this made this run the fastest railway run in the world. The train was hauled by Castle class 5006 Tregenna Castle and was crewed by Driver Harry Rudduck and Fireman Thorp of Old Oak Common shed.[5]

 

That’s rubbish I’m afraid - it was tremendously fast for its era where it mattered to passengers, which was start to stop averages. I’d give the counter suggestion that an LNER loco that hit 126mph and then fell apart, and required a huge clearance of the line in front, was of rather less value to the shareholders!

Tom

 

A bit selective there Tom, I did say:

My point being exactly what you are saying - the average speeds and point to point timings do matter, not just the top speed at any point on the route. We are in furious agreement!

Shots fired!

I would disagree (of course I would!) - but I think speed records are always a useful public relations tool, and so it has been with Mallard.

 

Tom siding with the GWR!? I nearly fell off my chair