Flying Scotsman

A tad over the top don't you think? All steam locos suffer from drifting exhaust if the conditions are right but it's not the issue it was in the past as explained by torgormaig.

 

Just found this.........

 

Strange mish-mash of footage there.

 

Indeed. Did you hear the bit they got wrong?

 

I don’t understand the antipathy to LNER apple green as a point of principle. The locomotive has made its mark in that livery, whether in 1920s/30s mechanical condition or 1960s/70s/80s/2000s.

Lest we forget, campaigns for fundraising have been run for Scotsman by various magazines where promises have been made over changes of livery.

Those promises have come to naught and in 2023, which was the centenary year of the LNER, the company which built the locomotive, the lack of LNER livery on the locomotive was disappointing, but understandable.

No one is advocating making the locomotive less safe, no one is advocating a full return to a mechanical condition that is impossible to achieve, anyone who IS advocating LNER apple green is also rightly asking for a single chimney as that form and look is the best compromise - something Alan Pegler recognised in 1964 - when coupled to a corridor tender.

The hand wringing over LHD/RHD and other bits are frankly just ways of muddying the waters to try and justify making no change at all.

At the end of the day, we only ever see this with BR liveried locomotives. The desperate desire to put the BR livery on and then keep it, justifying it to greater and greater extremes.

As far as I’m concerned, she’s had an excellent stint in that livery and it is now time for a change.

So in my view, if it can’t be done for this stint on the mainline, it absolutely needs to be done for the next one. And that needs to be a cast iron guarantee with a new single chimney to match.

And yes - she did wear express blue and yes you could legitimately put her into that livery if you so desired, with a single chimney fitted.

 

Had the volume down as wife was watching tv so didn’t catch any commentary.

 

During the Waterman era there was talk about putting her into BR blue and renaming her Pretty Polly as part of an advertising campaign for the eponymous tights. True or not I do not know but either way, it never happened.

 

Not so. Take those plates off and the General Public won't be able to tell it apart from Tornado or Blue Peter, or for some even the Duchess in BR Green.

But I genuinely think most people would look at an apple green steam loco with 4472 on the side and immediately think 'Flying Scotsman'. I've heard people mistaking Green Arrow as such.

 

1994 (ish) and 2016 - 2023 as 60103 - 8 years out of 60 in preservation, express blue would be nice but personally I really doubt Joe Public can tell one engine from another.

 

You mean like this - Flying Scotsman (or is it?) in the NRM workshop (remember that?) in 2010

Peter

 

The engine could also, short term go to single chimney form, and stay in BR green, a sight not seen on an A3 since 1968, then at the next General overhaul go into LNER green, with BR express blue towards the end of that period, and each will be authentic, so in keeping with NRM policy, if of course the NRM, wanted to ring the changes , that's one way it could be done, Fund raiser for a new casting, and blastpipe, to be fitted mid ticket, change the tender emblem to early BR, Lion and Wheel, then at next repaint into LNER Apple green, and half way through that ticket when a repaint is needed, into BR blue.

 

I agree, but my comment was about running it with a single chimney

One person's tedium is probably of no interest to anyone else. All you have to do is skip over any posts which don't spark your interest. As with any other forum topic I imagine this one will continue until everyone is (dis)/satisfied.

I've already offered to pay (many times in this thread) I also predict sooner or later NRM will want to do it themselves and announce "for the first time in xx-years, at last the opportunity to see 4472 Flying Scotsman in the classic LNER etc. etc." and then a few years later "60103 is back in BR Green and ... etc. etc.". - Can't wait - I like both.

 

I really hate the straw man argument of "the general public can't tell so why should we bother with effort": because my experience has been that the general public are not that stupid on the whole, and I find children in particular pay attention to detail in ways we older generations haven't, because they have grown up in a world that demands greater attention to detail across the whole spectrum of life.

Yes, we will always get someone who really isn't interested in railways at all asking "is that the Flying Scotsman" but the vast majority of people who take any interest in railways have done so chiefly from the starting point that may well be - drum roll please - Flying Scotsman in some way (Hornby etc).

Besides which, we are meant to be custodians of our respective locomotives for the new generations and part of that is telling their story in the best ways. You can't tell Flying Scotsman's story without the LNER branding, that is factual.

 

No commentary, it's a song.

 

Simon, you are digging yourself a deep hole here. The only thing factual about your statement is that it is your opinion. You can tell a story in a myriad of ways apart from a particular paint scheme. There is a story to tell about Silver Link although it was scrapped long ago. And I can think of another preserved pacific that perhaps should be back converted to its original condition (and even painted blue?) to properly tell the story of its rather radical origins - but that might give the society treasurer more of a headache than he could cope with.

As you keep reminding us, opinions are not necessarily facts.

Just saying.

Peter

 

Sorry Peter, it IS factual.

Every single one of Scotsman's notable achievements have been done whilst the locomotive has worn L.N.E.R. apple green livery as No.4472, whether in working life or as preserved.

To say that is not factual is to be misinformed.

To be honest Peter that says more about your knowledge of the locomotive and its achievements than it does about my "opinion" - which is backed up by photographs and primary evidence that we have in absolute abundance on the locomotive known as No.4472 Flying Scotsman.

I cannot think of many other locomotives where an historical livery is quite so important to telling the full story as on No.4472 Flying Scotsman.

To deny this is ridiculous and at odds with the facts.

 

All A3s got double chimneys before withdrawal so you need to go back to around pre c.1957 to see one in BR livery with a single chimney.

 

In which case I apologise.

 

Listened to some of it now. Would it be the chime whistle?