Flying Scotsman

This was the practice at Crewe North for the Perth Postal trains, but for entirely practical reasons. The firebox would be filled to the brick arch and then the engine went back under the coaling plant and topped up the tender. There would therefore be twelve tons of coal in the ender (although the nominal capacity was only ten tons, they would accept twelve well trimmed without fouling the loading gauge) and at least two tons on the grate. This meant that there was still quite a lot of the good Crewe coal left at the destination so they needed to take on less of the inferior Perth stuff, important with a heavy train over that distance and facing some stiff climbs.

 

Often the bean counters are the decision makers, so I will let you be the judge of who is more important

Glacing at the TE figures, an A3 is about 30-36k, and a jube is around 26k.

Fine engines the Stanier 5 GTI may be, but its utterly outclassed by an A3.

 

That was also normal on the N7 s out of Liverpool Street on the Jazz trains. I was told by a senior loco inspector it was a very efficient way of working.

 

And very often they are able to advise on consequences due to their understanding of their speciality.

Like any expert, they need to be on tap and not on top.

 

Both classes worked over the S & C Leeds to Carlisle. I wonder whether any performance figures still exist?

 

By way of comparison, Chapelon's 242A1 was capable of a sustained 74HP/sq. ft. grate and that was DBHP, not IHP. His 240Ps slightly bettered that with 76.2 dbhp/sq. ft. grate.

 

Boxing up the firebox was quite a common occurrence. To most firemen it was simply a job and anything that could be done to make things easier would be done. Far easier to shovel the coal whilst stationary than on the move. People tend to think that having a box full of coal would lead to over production of steam and constant blowing off but this is not the case. The coal will only burn relative to the amount of air it receives and this can be controlled by use of the dampers so a fireman can reasonably control that rate of combustion. Having that box full of coal does mean that there will be a lot more volatiles given off but, again, this can be controlled by the use of secondary air so, in the initial part of the journey the dampers would be nearly closed and the door wide open. The fireman could just sit back and play with the air. He wasn't all that bothered about efficiency as it made no difference to him.

 

An ex Saltey driver/ New street inspector tells tales of 5x's. He could be blowing his knackers off at New street and down the nick at Five ways.

 

Reminds me of a tale I heard about a Nine Elms crew (though I suspect repeated many times at many depots).

They booked on at Nine Elms to take a Merchant Navy from Waterloo to Salisbury on the Atlantic Coast Express. On picking it up, the shed preparation and disposal crew had evidently not exactly busted a gut to get the loco ready, and it had a thin fire across the grate and 160 pounds or so on the clock. The fireman, no doubt cursing, was faced with throwing in a ton or more of coal as they ran light engine into Waterloo to collect their train.

On their return with another Merchant Navy, they stuffed the box up to the door with coal and filled the boiler as they ran from Waterloo to Nine Elms - "there", they said to the hapless disposal crew, "that's how it should be in the morning", and booked off. The views of the P&D crew are not recorded, but you suspect they didn't make the same mistake again ...

Tom

 

Although big improvements were made to the 5Xs' steaming in the 1930s and they were capable of excellent performances, the steaming remained unreliable rather than poor. If you got an engine in good nick, decent coal and and a crew who knew their job, they could fly, but if one of these was much below par a rough trip was likely.

Most enginemen I spoke to were ambivalent about them. I recall the words of a driver at Liverpool Exchange in April 1968 just before he gave me a footplate run on 4891, "Unless it's an express turn, I'd rather have a Black 'un than a 5X any day."

 

https://gb.readly.com/magazines/steam-days/2023-11-14/6551bb7f87462b70007e5684

Here's a nice article with a bit about the A3s on the S and C. You have to sign up to read the whole article. Unfortunately the relevant table isn't visible but there is a report of good runs by 60038/80. I have read that some of them came to Holbeck in pretty poor condition and were barely used, borrowed examples from Neville Hill being preferred.

 

That sounds like a very acceptable performance, it is on a rising gradient from Water Orton to Saltley and I can tell you from personal experience a Class 47 diesel with 12 mk1s on would be lucky to get up to 60 mph on that stretch before having to ease off for the 25 mph restriction to go around landor street and St Andrews jct as Scotsman would have done on that occasion…

 

I think was normal on the Western region at Old Oak Common. A very good friend of mine was one of the Mutual Improvement team at Kettering. He had a footplate pass for anywhere on BR .He decided one day to give the Western a go at Old Oak .He decided a loco that was going to Bristol was ideal. The loco left shed with enough steam to work the brake to Paddington .The blower was turned full on and the fireman got shoveling on the way. The box was filled right up to the TOP of the Firehole , with the blower still full on to stop smoke ,it was judged just right for full pressure at the right away time. Soon as the loco moved the coal that was up to the top of the Firehole was pushed forward down the box. A good trip was had.
He was quite impressed, so next time he was on a express out of ST Pancras ,he mentioned to his driver what his was going to do ,and how much steam did he needed to work the brake from Kentish Town shed to St Pancras. Everything worked to plan as above .Wether he carried on with this method and passed his ideas on I don't know.

 

Just to say, I did end up contacting the NRM, had a pleasant exchange. Calmly await events.

 

So that does that mean Al this is some sort of SD operation where the loco is dragged out to Kenny O where the steam takes over and the diesel stays on the back?

 

The express blue would certainly be my livery choice! But I suspect that a majority would see a shade of green as a key component of the engine's brand.

There is a place where LNER-style Pacifics can be seen in a variety of colour schemes:

https://www.rhdr.org.uk/locomotives/

"Green Goddess" is in LNER apple green with "Northern Chief" in BR standard green. "Southern Maid" has a livery probably inspired by SR malachite green, but (with its black and white lining) also with some affinity to GCR brunswick green as seen on Butler Henderson.

Speaking of GCR, attached is a photo of Flying Scotsman in GCR-line service - in 1953 at Manchester London Road (now Man Picadilly) on a train to Marylebone via the Woodhead route. From "Railways in & around the Manchester Suburbs" by EM Johnson (Foxline 1989).

 

I’m guessing this was when it was Leicester based machine way before that other bloke with big ears came along?

 

If you want to be pedantic it would have had righthand drive when in blue livery

 

Come on NRM, get with the programme, I demand to see Scotsman in her authentic RHD configuration…

Simon