Vintage Trains 2024

I remember the day 5043 followed 6233 up Shap as didn’t the Castle set fires here and there hence the diesel was tagged behind the Castle from Carlisle. I remember Gordon Hodgson telling me the night before we went up Shap that he was under orders not start any fires with his last words being I won’t but the Castle will !

 

You were about right with the numbers at Greenholme and a cracking idea about us "stand-abouts" making a donation, thanks for the link. Looking at the photos and videos there were certainly plenty of people lining the ridges; it was almost like a scene from the film Zulu (perhaps not just as many) but as the train past I think I caught the strains of a Welsh Tenor (Timer?) belting out "Men of Harlech".

 

Alan, welcome to my world!

There is an easier way to find the speed that gives accurate results (within 0.5% for an 11 coach train). Using your video editor find the time taken for the coaches to pass a fixed point. Assuming that the train is approaching the camera I usually use the LH edge of the frame. Take the time from when the foremost part of the first coach body reaches the frame edge to when the hindmost equivalent part leaves the frame edge; I often use the gutter line. The camera needs to remain fixed and not zoomed in or out.

Then use the formula,

V=45xN/T

Where V is the average speed in mph, N is the number of coaches and T is the time taken in seconds to pass a fixed point. Whilst the formula is not 100% accurate, it is very close and does give extremely good results. It doesn't work if the formation contains vehicles other than standard length mk1s and 2s, eg mk3s (LSL sometimes) and VT with its GUV.

On Saturday when I "timed" The Shap Mountaineer I ignored the GUV and timed it over the 8 standard coaches. Approaching Greenholme the 8 coaches passed in 6.19s giving 58.2mph and Tangmere's 11 coaches passed in 8.31s giving 59.6mph.

 

The thing I find most interesting about your post is the fact that seats were still available on the day. A while back it was being argued on the diesel assistance thread that there were a very large numbers who would pay more for guaranteed unassisted steam. The fact that a shortish train was not full, on a tour sold as exactly that, perhaps counters that argument.
I do agree with your point about those lineside, but how you could really do anything about it I am unsure. I am unfamiliar with Shap for example but I assume much of those fields beside the line are owned by farmers?. Not sure on the legality of trying to collect "on site" on their land and what would make people bother to do it after the event online, anymore than sending a tour company money now.

 

A comparison on the speeds on Shap are a little unfair given that 5043 was delayed by 50 + minutes due to a medical emergency (later advised as a fatality) on the train and was sent north from Carnforth on 34067's path (IIRC) whilst 34067 was given a VSTP (Very Short Term Plan) path which involved the assistance of the 47 to regain some time. In fairness a lot of behind the scenes activity took place and I can only commend those involved for their success in allowing both trains to run as expected (albeit with delays).

 

I don't think you can read too much into this. I note that the next VT unassisted steam trip on 10/11th May is now sold out in First and Tourist Class. Not cheap either, £250 for a Tourist Class seat.

 

So sorry to hear that the medical emergency subsequently became a fatality. I, for one, appreciate how the day's events had to progress and applaud all those involved in making it happen. I have no problem with the 47 assisting Tangmere. The speeds I quoted were a statement of fact, just as it was a fact that at Greenholme the trains were 20 minutes apart (see my earlier post). IMO any comparison of speeds would be completely meaningless.

 

I wasn't comparing speeds as a matter of criticism, simply as a matter of fact to see how much difference the 47 was making to 34067's progress, which seemed from the duration of my video clips to have been significant. It probably stems from my training as a surveyor many decades ago. It was curiosity, not criticism.

I was aware, as were others at Shap Wells of the medical emergency on board before the train had left Preston, in fact we were told it might be 90 minutes delayed. For a while there was speculation that 34067 may have been released before 5043 for the climb. 'Fairness' does not come into it, and while we are on the subject of 'fairness', I find your post to be a little unfair in itself!

 

Bearing in mind how long it took to go through all the required process with the fatality on the DCE at Victoria in 2022, and one shown at Reading on one of those Channel 5 programmes about GWR a 50 minute delay seemed very short compared to what may have happened elsewhere.

 

That thought was certainly expressed at Preston when we on the Vintage train didn't know how long we would be there, helicopter in attendance etc. If the CME had been on time, then maybe it would have gone first. But I guess the layout at Carnforth isn't the easiest.

 

As one of those who will only travel where unassisted steam (and opening windows!) are reasonably assured, perhaps I should explain why I was not on the VT tour last Saturday.
For me, living in Cardiff, the problem was the early start (and late finish) from Birmingham. This would have meant booking two nights accommodation in Birmingham at a likely cost of £100 per night, in addition to a Tourist Class seat @£129 (plus 6% fee if booking online), plus the cost of getting to/from Birmingham (say £50), not to mention various meals out. It all adds up to an expensive day out for a pensioner. I suppose I might have travelled up the Marches line on the day and joined and left the train at Crewe, but that would have made for a very long day out and the possibility of missed connections makes me rather anxious.

Furthermore, I was on the 2009 trip, where steam came on at Crewe, and where the performance of 5043 on the day was quite exceptional, and as it turned out, was not bettered last Saturday with one coach fewer.

However, I am booked on the Plymouth trip, joining and leaving at Oxford, and greatly looking forward to it.

Nick M.

 

I don't think so. As someone who much prefers unassisted steam but will also travel occasionally on diesel assisted trains, there are also many other criteria which affect my choices. In the case of this tour, the available stations were not convenient and their times a little risky for me, my wife didn't want to visit Carlisle again in March especially with Tullie House closed, and there were no dining tables for two available by the time I checked. Times are frequently a problem for us now as we won't risk tours that rely on the last train for us to get home or to wherever our motorhome is parked.

 

Footage from last Saturday's Shap Mountaineer:

 

Nice set of shots

 

Many thanks both, always great to see unassisted steam on Shap and 5043.

 

If true, disappointing albeit understandable. Perhaps when the overhaul of Nunney Castle is complete, Mr Hosking will pick up the gauntlet…

 

I was interested in the Shakespeare Express from Worcester, but my enthusiasm waned when I learned that there would be a diesel on the back/front to and from SoA. However, I now realise that for an extra £15, it will be possible to do the afternoon trip from SoA to Birmingham and return, with unassisted steam. So for a total outlay of £60, it now looks rather tempting.

 

Forgive me if I’m wrong but I understood it to be steam from Worcester to Hatton, then diesel Hatton to Stratford. After that steam would do the normal Stratford to Birmingham and back. Then it would be steam all the way Stratford to Worcester? That’s how I understood it anyway