Bluebell Railway General Discussion

'Like' is to small a word, is there a WOW! button?

 

W O W! This has to be THE gold standard by which others will be judged.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I see there's been an update to the website and for those interested, the Railway now has an Internal Combustion and Electric Traction Policy that can downloaded to read, with some things of interest for Diesel and Electric enthusiasts, including:

- Disposal of the Sentinel Shunter (I think it's owned by a group in C&W Department and based at Horsted Keynes) due to not being in keeping, the need for an overhaul and lacking train braking capabilities.

Should they become available, a proposal submitted for the railway to aquire or have based on the line:

- Either a Class 24 or Class 25 as a second mainline rated loco (due to Southern Region connections).

- Either a Class 03, 04 or 07 shunter to replace the Sentinel.

- A third compatible (preferably an intermediate) coach for the Thumper unit.

There's also further information regarding livery policy and short, medium and long term aims regarding restoration and maintenance facilities.

 

Whilst I hate to hit the "doubt" button too soon, probably have a better chance of another 33 coming up for sale or becoming available than a 24 or 25. Can't think the last time one came up, even Needles one at the NYMR was a swap and that was a good few years back now. And makes more sense to me to have two 33s for spares to me but I'm sure theres a logic here that I'm not seeing.

 

A bit of a mystery to me as well (not that I am very close to such things). A tentative guess might be that a 24/25 could in principle heat the carriages in winter, which a 33 can’t. But, given likelihood of anything coming up for possible acquisition, you’d have thought at least leaving open another 33 as an option would make more sense.

I think as with several other Bluebell rolling stock policies, it is at least as instructive for what it leaves out as includes. I would read it as saying that even if there was a desire to acquire another loco, types such as class 20 / 31 / 37 / 47 / 50 / hydraulics are definitely excluded from consideration.

Tom

 

That’s my interpretation - and one I’d support despite my liking for many of those classes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There's only four class 24s - two operational, one being overhauled, one dumped - so acquiring one of them is unlikely. Class 25s, however... Plenty around in various states of repair. Harry Needle's has three and they haven't been touched since he bought them as far as I know. There's a couple at Nemesis Rail at Burton on Trent, one has been partly overhauled. Just depends whether the owners are willing to sell.

 

It is all too easy to buy a loco, difficult sometimes problematic to get your pride and joy into a good runnable condition and very hard to keep one running in good condition if it used often and the running hours mount up.

I would say to the Bluebell "Spares spares spares and spares again" so having two 33s is infinitely better than one 33 and one say 25, ( yes they both have Sulzer engines but not all parts will fit both as a quick look at the part numbers in the Sulzer Manual parts book will confirm) The Electrical control suppliers not the same so all your contact tips, coils etc that need regular attention will be different. The various classes of 25 have a lot of variations interclass.
At least 73s and DEMU share many common EE parts.
24 and 25s? Connection with Southern Region is not that strong, I know 24s were based on the SE due to lack of ETC stock but were sent packing as soon as possible. But then most other classes were also used on the Southern on interregional trains. This seems to be a Policy scratching around for a justification.
33s and 73s are undeniably Southern. I have drawings with Brighton Office on them for the 73s and 33s as well as Eastleigh of course. 33s also use Allen West Electrical control gear who were based and manufactured in Brighton.
73s and 33s use a lot of common brake equipment and same Air compressor.
73s and DEMUs use a lot of common engine components ( the same engine in fact apart from Governor and water/oil cooling differences)
And as experience is gained people can fault find and repair more easily. So much to be said for having more than one of everything if you are looking at them for your every day off peak bread and butter services.
Same for shunters, get another 09 rather than introduce 03/04 Gardener engines and epicyclic gearboxes needing another lot of knowledge to keep them running. An 09 is more surefooted on Gradients as well.

No different really than the Steam stock, the Bluebell has ended up with a list of Steam Engines that any museum would die for, but all requiring different parts regularly if you want to steam them on a day to day basis. They should have rotated the three BR Class 4 tanks, one in service, one ready to use and one under 10 year overhaul basis which would have been a lot cheaper and take less resource for the bread and butter steam services rather than faff around with keeping one off engines serviceable for the day to day.

Seems that lesson has not been understood or learnt.

Brian
Long Term Bluebell Shareholder
Also Part Owner of 33s, a 73, and maintainer of DEMUs

 

I think the steam heat aspect is important, though a possible distraction - there are few steam heat diesels with operable boilers, and their use is considered noteworthy.

I can see a practical operational justification for a second Sulzer Bo-Bo, and for it to be a 24 or 25. But I'd personally be just as happy with a (not regionally connected) 26 or 27 if that's really the need, and agree that the regional justification is somewhat threadbare.

 

...so we're not in the market for a 66 then?

 

That would be big chuggeritis …

I tend to agree with @burmister - both on regional and practical grounds, another 33 and 09 make more sense than a 24 or 25 and 04 or 07.

Tom

 

IF it is accepted that steam heat is not an essential feature for diesels based on the line.

 

But 24's ran on the Southern... There is a picture around of a Class 24 in original livery with a nice rake of 4 Bulleid coaches south of the Thames.

 

As emergency substitutes for a short period. Otherwise, and noting that of the 4 that survive, 2 are highly valued by their host railways and the other 2 are undergoing or in need of major overhaul up at Grosmont, I think that the chances of a 24 landing at Sheffield Park are low.

 

You want a nice little Hoover, you do... they worked on (bits of) the Southern Region too...

I can't immediately see the logic behind the stated strategy. 25s aren't made by BCRCW and so may be less rust-prone?
Overall, for the majority of BR modern traction, it really class 33 or class 33 for a pure diesel, with 73 for everything else.

 

Including to Brighton

 

Really you'd want a class 12, but that might be a touch tricky...

 

Presumably there is an element of 'aspiration' in these strategic type documents, so it is ok to ask for something that seems a bit out there to get a full collection? It doesn't mean they would necessarily turn away another 33 if one was in the offing....

 

I presume that you are talking steam heat of coaches unless the Bluebell has a secret plan to fit ETH to its coaches. Steam heat diesels are thin on the ground and much in demand so the chances are you would end up having to build a new boiler to fit to your desired diesel. If that is the case I'd say it would be more sensible to provide a steam heat van that can be attached to any train. In that way, non-steam heat diesels, such as the Cl.33 wouldn't be a problem in winter.

 

It wouldn't be unknown to have such as strategy being aspirational - the wagon strategy, for example, lists at least one type of wagon for acquisition that would be rarer than rocking horse poo, but I think it is included so that if one were to be discovered, there would be pre-existing authority to make a bid without a complex governance process first.

But that said - I think it is probably more likely that it is written at least as much for what it excludes as includes. In other words - "you may have the last remaining example of a BR class 49 three wheel diesel prototype that ran on the Much Witterning Branch for two weeks before expiring in a cloud of diesel smoke (minus engine, wheels and with rusty body that even Henry Moore would think pushed the concept of holes within a solid form a bit far) and a support group numbering almost two people, but we aren't interested in your basing it at the Bluebell however unique and preservation-worthy you consider it to be".

Tom