Swanage Railway General Discussion

So what is the 33 moving around Swanage today? I would much prefer a 33 to the 117 as the former is correct for the era and area whereas the 117 has no place.

 

The comment was about the Bluebell - it was in response to someone suggesting that the Bluebell could use more diesels. We can’t for the reasons I stated.

It’s a personal thing, but in general use of diesels (for example on a mixed steam / diesel timetable) would decrease the likelihood that I’d visit a railway.

Tom

 

Class 117 dmus are correct for the era and area as they ran to Swanage on excursions. There is a picture of a class 117/101 formation at Swanage in the book Swanage Railway in Colour by Tim Deacon.

 

Agreed,

I'm less likely to visit if there's a chance of diesel haulage too.

 

But if you visit the Swanage railway in July or August, providing the risk of trackside fires is under control, you can get a steam train by checking the timetable.
Perhaps the SR needs to make a statement about the cost of coal, or look into the possibility of a 2 steam train timetable?

 

You won’t be able to visit any heritage railway if they can’t pay their bills and have to shut up shop.

 

But there are two sides to the cash equation - costs and income. If you cut costs but in the process drive more income away than you have saved in cost cuts, you’ve made the situation worse, not better.

I’m only one person, so the railway needs to do its own market research. But for me, diesels would discourage visiting.

Tom

 

The save our railway statement does mention the price of coal,
https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/save-your-railway
but not that they will have to run a one steam one diesel July/August timetable, rather than a 2 steam train timetable to save costs.
However could be one of the painful decisions if the appeal does not work?

 

May I suggest that its a question of 'horses for courses' and what is a sensible decision for Swanage isnt necessarily what works for The Bluebell?

I visit the Swanage Railway fairly regularly but have only visited the Bluebell twice(?) as an adult so here goes.

At one end you have the Ffestiniog / WHR which have carried on doing what they did over Covid which is basically selling an outing, ie you prebook a train, get on it to Blaenau Ffestiniog, Beddgelert etc spend X amount of time there and come back. Bit like a Coach Tour or trip on the Waverley.

At the other end I suspect that quite a lot of people use the Swanage Railway to get somewhere, be it Corfe Castle, the Beach at Swanage etc. Now if you are doing that in order to make it attractive the train needs to run reasonably often and the question has to be how can you do that in a way that is cost effective?

Somewhere in the middle you have the Tallylyn & Bluebell where I suspect most people get on and do a round trip, so in effect you get a Ffestiniog / WHR type 'experience' its just that it hasn't been formalised, in which case - and I take many of the points that @Jamessquared has made about both the difference between steam & diesel running costs & the need to run enough trains to maintain competencies and train, it doesnt matter so much how many trains you run in an absolute sense as its a bit more like going to the Cinema, is the show is at 2 so thats when we need to be there for.

 

On another forum that I frequent, there is a discussion of the issues of keeping vintage equipment functional so that visitors can see it in operation, doing the job it was designed for. Here's one quote from that thread:

 

A non railway enthusiast friend did a trip on a diesel hauled train over the SVR last summer and very much enjoyed it.

I think that it was with the LNER set though which might have given that extra vintage edge so perhaps combing vintage carriages with diesels might be worth a try?

And yes, the plural of anecdote is not data but has anyone tried asking the passengers?

 

Until Covid, my wife and I were regular visitors to Porthmadog and would use the railways to enable coastal and mountain walks. Unfortunately, with the present timetables and fares, only coastal walks using the mainline are viable. An event such as the Centenary celebration might encourage us to visit but it's unlikely another of similar scale will happen soon. We are a minority, few walkers use the railway now and the management believe their strategy maximises profits. One must hope that they right.

 

Was there any feed back from ordinary passengers last year when diesels ran alongside steam locos, there may not have been a formal survey? Going through facebook and trip review site comments might be possible?
However if the SR has already decided to use diesels peaktimes to cut coal costs by publishing timetables without any market research, then may not be worth it?
(I see a new thread to discuss more)
I remember a while back it was just steam during day and DMU occasional evenings

Is this it (although SR had some under preservation?) There was talk of previous ramblers/walkers groups mainline specials before preservation, maybe again sometime a bit like the diesel gala railtour to take place in May
https://www.scenicrailbritain.com/lines/purbeck-line-swanage-railway by ANDREW PM WRIGHT

 

I would suggest that what may have happened before Covid, as that is what we are really talking about may have been forgotten by many, or may not even be that relevant in the peak summer if the main purpose is to get people from Norden to Swanage for the beach etc.
I do not know the answer but how many turn up at Norden and expect to find a train within say 15 minutes, let alone one that is steam hauled. There is much discussion on other threads of how us non smartphone users are luddites that the world is passing by, yet suddenly it seems where an HR trip is concerned no one can look up a timetable that says steam or diesel on their phone, tablet, home computer or laptop, and workout which to aim for if it is important to them.
Swanage say running at 45 minutes throughout the day, one steam, one diesel, I believe gives more steam services than the Bluebell all steam services (as an example) or the Mid Hants that seems to have not yet published a summer holiday timetable (as another example).
A bigger question may be how many want to pay a £55 family return for either type of traction against a parallel bus route that would be £8.

 

There is a strong sense of deja vue regarding posts about steam vs diesel and timetables.

Swanage Railway has run three core timetables: one steam loco in service (giving a frequency of every 80 / 90 minutes) one steam and one diesel loco in service (giving a frequency of every 40 - 45 minutes) and two steam locos in service (giving a frequency of every 40 - 45 minutes). The timetable offered reflects both past experience (of demand) and looking forward (predicting demand). The general public (who make up the vast majority of SRC passengers) generally speaking prefer steam. When the mixed traction timetable is in operation - this is for days when demand is greater than a one loco day but two steam locos can not be justified on financial grounds as the demand is insufficient - there is an expectation that passengers will plan their journeys accordingly - ie if steam is a must have they will plan their day around the steam service timings. This approach by SRC is the optimum approach - it meets the needs and desires of passengers but does not inflict a severe cost penalty on the mid season days when two steam locos in service can not be justified. This approach has been tried and tested over very many years and generally speaking has been successful. There has been some tinkering of which timetable on which days, and some minor changes of the timing of first and last trains but essentially the three timetable methodology has stood the test of time. Mondays and Fridays in the low season has seen a softening of demand to the point they were not financially viable to operate.

One has to ask what other options are available to SRC. If you cut the 2 train (1 s and 1d) to 1 train (1 s) then all that is saved is the cost of the diesel operation and arguably would result in traffic turning away at Norden and Swanage because the wait is too long for the next train. If you cut the 2 train (2s) to 2 train (1s 1d) then what is saved is the difference between a days coal and a days diesel and could result in traffic turning away at Norden and Swanage not because of the wait per se but because of the wait for a steam service as they will only travel by steam.

SRC could of course promote a 1 steam in service timetable and then add additional services (ie add in loco 2) or indeed go from 1s1d to 2s if demand on the day warranted it. However it is challenging to see how such a decision could be taken as demand often appears very quickly and there simply is not time to react.

Do we know how Go South Coast react to fluctuations in demand on the Purbeck Breezer 50? They may have a similar problem but of course a diesel bus can be on the move in a matter of minutes whereas it would take SRC much longer to ready a train set.

Carrying out customer surveys does not always inform good decision making because respondees almost invariably answer more favourably to a hypothetical situation put to them than when faced with the choice for real.

 

Other than making the 50 half hourly in the summer peak ( and another few chosen days) Morebus appear to do what all bus companies do, if it is full the rest get left behind. My father when he was mobile, for example would regularly take a bus from the square to the station in Bournemouth, to guarantee a seat on the bus back to Swanage. I have seen many 50's entering and leaving Swanage with "Bus Full" on the destination display.

 

They have on occasion fed extra vehicles into the running (duplicates or dupes as they are often called) but I dont know whether these are preplanned (based on expected demand) or if they have the ability to do this at very short notice. Presumably they have stand by drivers in case of sickness / no show but would they take the risk of committing a stand by driver to the 50 given that if there is then a no show they have used up their spare.

 

The rain coming at 14:00 exactly as forecast stopped my plans to continue our own version of painting the Forth Bridge, i.e.weeding the front garden.
So having stuff for the dump decided to do the crossover shot (below) of the respective 15:20 services at HX.
Totally unscientific, but departing HX the steam service had around 50 passengers, of which probably 25% were children (2 adults and one child got off).
The 117 had 19 passengers (surprisingly none of whom were in the rear drive car).
As this was the first departure after the rain set in, would have expected more. But on driving past the main beach car park on the way back home barely 20% full. Maybe just low numbers here today all round.
Not sure this vindicates it should be two steam for the Easter holidays argument.

 

The vast majority of the population regularly use smartphones. Some appear unable to live without them. In the technological world that we live, I would imagine that most SR rail users know exactly what time their train is due and if it is steam hauled or diesel. The SR online timetable is excellent and with the use of Railcam.uk you can see in livetime which locomotive will be hauling your train.

As I'm a NT member, I visited the castle at Corfe at the weekend. I noticed that a group of families would form at the perimeter wall to watch the steam service (the children were most enthusiastic). 40 minutes later when the diesel service was due there was not a soul to be seen. Most interesting. [BJ]

 

At the risk of generalisation: virtually everyone irrespective of age, gender or interest will turn and watch a steam locomotive, only enthusiasts will turn and watch a diesel (unless they are startled by the noise!).