Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

A few years ago a study was done of the area and the possibilities of bringing the railway through to Pilton, yes Alexandra Road would have to be shimmied across a bit but there is room to do it, likewise it is possible to get over the St Georges Road issue too, with a little thinking outside of the box ( already one idea on paper)Snapper could be viable as a means to an end especially if one needs to dangle a carrot

 

St George's Road/Raleigh Meadow area, back line shows EA's track route.

 

Not quite enough room where that black line is Dave and most of it is on the leat, but it can be done with a bit of engineering, the old trackbed is now in the last 8 feet or so of most of the gardens along Yeo Vale / Carrington Terrace and further along there is a play area and social club car park across the route, that then leads to the fabled Hole Ground where had enough enthusiasm existed at the time, the railway could have been reborn in the first place

 

i could understand those reasons if a professional poll was to be conducted but as it was suggested it would give a here and now feeling of those on that page, something of an 'acid' test , much like a show of hands at an AGM

 

Yes not a great place in many respects but my understanding is we have an up hill struggles with the next landowners who I guess have been looking in on the progress or lack of it at Woody Bay.

Many years ago and of course on the back of a pub beer mat this time a doodle around Barnstaple was suggested on paper it looked good and it even extend the railway by about five miles, however what wasn't taken care of was the need to build a tunnel under the road near to the North Devon Hospital.

If I also recall correctly the plan was to also allow the railway to join up with the old Ilfracombe just by the Sewerage unit and come back into Barnstaple on the LSWR line and then use the old town station as the terminus of the project.

Sadly I don't think that will happen now either, due to all the new building work going on in the area. I am not sure if it got any further and I am sure no one has looked at the contours of a map to see if it was feasible.

 

If I know the lay of the land there there is no way through, North Road climbs steadily from the Fire Station to the NDDH roundabout and on the left is houses and allotments and then Pilton St behind.

Might.... Might be able to go under North Road by Pilton Lawn, but it would be a long long skew bridge and then squeeze down and across Pilton Park, but that would mean a level crossing on the Pilton Quay road.

 

I think prudence suggests you plan for the worst and hope for the best. Whatever the planning guidance might now be, it wasn’t that back then. I don’t disagree that the conditions were onerous nor that the board would have faced an uphill battle against them even if they had had a plan, but it appears there was no plan and that is no basis on which to build a railway.

 

Can Hole Ground still be used somehow? Seems quite a stretch after that to the Fisheries and Health Retreat and then is Snapper.
Would certainly wake Barnstaple up to what's going on and could attract a new source of interest, volunteers etc.

 

Michael I was just having a little joke with the stated words. OK?

 

He still has time...

 

The WHR was funded from a variety of sources including public funding as well as private donors and the railways’ volunteers.

Wikipedia sez:
“The cost of reconstruction was of the order of £30 million. Of this, about 45% came from the Millennium Commission and the European Regional Development Fund through the Welsh Assembly Government, mostly as matching funding for other contributions. ……. Much of the rest was raised by generous financial contributions from members and well-wishers (about £15 million); over £1 million was raised as matching funding to volunteer efforts”

The KESR extension to Bodiam, completed in 2000, was majority funded by a Millennium Commission grant. The RVR project has, so far, largely been funded by a small number of private donors. Public/lottery funding for heritage railway extensions no longer seems to be available on the scale of 25 years ago (or can anyone think of any more recent examples?).

It’s no coincidence that the FfR/Welsh Highland and the RVR/KESR have a number of people in common including major donors and experienced professionals who know, better than most, how to attract funding from a variety of public/private sources. And how to manage a complex project including the Planning, Property & Legal issues as well as the Engineering. The L&B Trust needs more people with the same knowledge, skills and money, but doesn’t seem to be attracting them.

 

I know of at least two people that have tried but they didn't get any feedback from the trust, may be it is all about losing control of the project?

I understand that one of them will not support the railway in the future (he is no longer with us).

 

I swear, it feels like the six on the trust really don't want to extend the line.

 

I have come to the same conclusion. It may not be an active decision, but having a museum operation with demo line is probably quite comfortable.

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Or perhaps they may want to extend but recognise and accept their overarching duty as trustees to ensure, so far a possible, the financial viability of the charity? As pointed out previously the charity's objects do not include a specific purpose of extension or rebuilding. Those are only legitimate activities if they enhance the ability of the charity to educate the public regarding railways generally and they do not put the charity's financial future in jeopardy. There are frequent references on here to what the members want and no doubt rebuilding as much as possible of the line is why many joined. However, it doesn't matter who the Trustees are. They will still have the same duty for which they are accountable to the charity commission and compliance with that may not gel with members' wishes.
Presumably there would be consensus that any extension should not put the survival of what has already been achieved at risk? If it did then sticking with a short museum line would be the right decision.
What's clear from the comparison with the costs of the WHR and the experince of the RVR is that rebuilding much of the line would be a multi million pound exercise. In effect the loss of land owenership over the former track bed means the task is equivalent to building a new line from scratch. Funding that is likely to be way beyond the capacity of members to provide the necessary finance and grants may be unlikely since the outcome of a contested planning process envisaging a TWAO and compusory purchase is uncertain. Grant funders want to support positive outcomes not huge legal bills that may or may not produce the desired outcome.
It would be a shame if the L&B can't extend much beyond what is there now but it does have the merit of being a relatively low cost operation which in these difficult times may be a considaerable advantage .
Of course sticking with what exists would be hugely disappointing for those who dream of a reincarnated full length L&B but any board of Trustees is going to come up against the hard financial reality that dreams don't always come true

 

Wouldn't like to say right now, the area around there has been developed (at the same time that starting the railway there was on the table, you snooze you lose as they say) urban estate roads would now restrict access

 

So basically what you're saying is that the membership have and still are being thrown a lemon, the Trust know the members want an extension but also known financially it can't happen but still milk the members for their cash by applying for and getting planning permission to extend the railway to Blackmoor Gate, when that failed the CFL option was proposed to keep us all on board, it is the trustees who have given the members the expectation of an extension, no one else,

 

If they were, then I'd have some respect for that as a position. As an ordinary member, there is no indication of anything of the sort from the Trust and all the signals are that the Trust board remain focused on delivering a c. 1/2 mile extension to Cricket Field Lane which has few if any justifications other than as a small 1st stage extension towards Blackmoor Gate. They continue to raise funds with extension in mind - if extension is not in contemplation, then that is misrepresentation.

Your points about how funders might see an extension are understood, though I'm personally far more optimistic about the potential - we know that on other parts of the trackbed, EA and YVT have been successfully purchasing parcels of land in readiness for extension being practical. We have seen how the RVR have attracted supporters willing to support the legal and regulatory costs of the TWAO process; as at now, there's no sense that these possibilities are being explored - or that they were when considering the 2018 planning permission.

One final thought. The trustees have committed a six figure sum of trust money (I believe ~£500k) to the purchase of Old Station Inn, justified by the strategic position of the pub on the site of Blackmoor Gate station. This is already highly questionable use of charity resources (see passim upthread ad nauseam); if they were to have decided to restrict the Trust's ambitions to more or less the current run, there could be no justification for that investment and it should be sold on.

 

If the current trustees believe the strategic interests of the charity are in maintaining the status quo, why did they invest such a large sum in a pub miles away? Or in planning fees for an extension? Those actions only makes sense if the intention is to extend.

I know you are always keen to interpret everything in terms of the legal duties of the trustees - but you have to look at where they have spent money. If your view of their intentions is correct, then they have wasted huge amounts of money preparing for an extension they don’t believe in and have no intention of pursuing.

Tom

 

>>>....Presumably there would be consensus that any extension should not put the survival of what has already been achieved at risk? If it did then sticking with a short museum line would be the right decision....

There has been quite a bit of comment recently, both here and on exmoor-ng, about the desirability of a proper L&BR Museum. Whilst the current railway might be regarded as a 'living museum', the relative lack of opportunities for visitors to see more of - and learn more about - the surviving L&BR relics does strike me as rather odd for a line which prides itself on its heritage history.

But where will such a museum be located? There have been suggestions that it should form part of a wider Blackmoor station complex, but - let's be frank - where are the positive signs that such a things will ever get off the ground, let alone in the relatively near future? And if, for the foreseeable future, the main focus/function of the L&BR will be a 'short museum line' from WB-KL (or even CFL), what would be the point of the actual museum being further away at BR?