6880 Betton Grange

I think people who make those silly comments are just trying to provoke a reaction and start a pointless argument. I’m no GW fan but the Grange mob have achieved something we would have all thought impossible 20 years ago. When it does its first photo charter hopefully I’ll be on it.
Now I’ll spend the rest of the day in SW London helping to get some Southern tat match fit for the mainline!

 

Well done to the Grange team. Your locomotive looks fantastic and I'm sure you all feel very proud - and rightly so!

 

I for one am glad to see her actually running.

 

Fantastic!. It's so good to see her running. Congratulations to all involved with this wonderful loco.

 

Morris Minors were built in the Midlands

 

I'm sorry to hear you are suffering so badly with your eyesight in later life. Specsavers do home vistis now you know......

 

(not my video)

 

Gas works Railway

 

I can only speak from personal experience, but I would take a GW designed engine every time over an unrebuilt Bulleid. The two scariest and worst turns ever in my 35 years on the footplate were with the latter.

GW engines can be uncomfortable and a bit basic, but they mostly just work. As do the majority of engines from any railway company. The unrebuilt BB or WC is a design that is and was fabulous when working, but more difficult than average to keep that way. I don’t buy into this now somewhat silly tribalism around the big four. If it is steam I like it, I acknowledge that I like some more than others, but that’s based on design and experience. The GW 56xx and versions is horrid for example. The Q and the S15 sublime, the GW mogul brilliant, the A1 amazing and the Std 4 tank magic carpet smooth.

 

Ultimately on a heritage line you will not get better than a Manor or Hall, so I’m absolutely certain the Grange will be fantastic.

As nice as it is to fire the Bullied at the SVR, the amount of prep time it takes, coal, water and oil it uses and just the general pain in the **** it is compared to the Manors or Hall, makes it less than ideal

 

Depends on the heritage line - I've crewed a Hall, Manor, Large Prairie, Small Prairie, 5700, Standard 2 and Caley Tank at Shackerstone and I'd say the Standard 2 was the best of the bunch for what we need.

 

I'd challenge that first statement

Firstly, it obviously depends on the line, the loads and the gradient. And I'd also echo @21B comment "If it is steam I like it" - I can play the tribal game for japes, but I'm happy to be on most locos.

Clearly there will be lots of firemen more experienced than me - but I just totted up and reckon I have fired about 30 different locos, so I have some experience. They range in date from 1872 to 1959; in size from a tiny 0-4-0T industrial to a 9F; span across many pre-grouping locos, all of the big four and a number of BR standards. So I think I have got a fair claim to know "what does the job". For our line (quite steeply graded) I'd say that all round, an 80xxx tank takes some beating. A close second (load adjusted) is a Wainwright H or Stirling O1. An S15 will shift anything but is heavy to prepare.

And a Hall? Curate's egg, to me. Out on the line they are good from a fireman's point of view - steam well, pull well. But as the curate said of his egg: "parts of it were excellent". The woeful parts about a Hall are preparing it which is singularly unpleasant and heavy. Once it is alight, the day gets better, though they need two gauge glasses for reasons discussed some months ago on the Bluebell thread. (I could point to at least two historic firebox crown collapses that would have been avoided had they had two glasses - one of which happened on a Grange, in which a fitter's mistake went undetected because there was no second glass that would have made it immediately apparent).

Tom

 

I would think any engine of that size will be a bit ungainly for a heritage line, apart from possibly the GCR. The third cylinder is a bit awakward as it was never designed to be manually oiled and the firebox swallows a lot of coal. As for the original unrebuilts talking to enginemen back in steam days they seemed to either swear by them or swear at them, preparation was obviously simpler. The mystery is with all three Southerm constituent companies having developed reliable steam reversing gear Bulleid went to the trouble of designing his own that wasn’t reliable.

 

I have been on 35005 at the GCR. It was barely in steam and able to pull the train. I have also fired the same engine with 9 or more on over the MHR and had it properly superheating. Which place is it the more ungainly at? Also that engine worked over the MHR prior to withdrawal and the doyen of the class was named in a ceremony at Alresford.

The steam reverser bit has always puzzled me too because Drummond’s works really well. Someone said to me recently that it was probably the rivalry between the different drawing offices that created the problem. Maybe there is some truth to that, I don’t know, but since driving the T9 it has me wishing that Bulleid hadn’t bothered.

 

For “heavy” to prep…. try Lord Nelson. Over 200 oiling points as there are four sets of motion. However, once prepped the rest of the experience is brilliant. The King was the same (with fewer oiling points ).
For ease of prep….std5. There was a bit of a flap one day and we needed another engine out. The 5 was in steam but not prepped. 20 mins later I had it on a train!

 

If we’re going to just willy wave about what’s ‘best’ on a 68xx thread then can I just throw this one in of 6879?
Cheers, Matt

 

Never knew these were referred to as ‘willies’ and all those people who stick their torsos out of droplights when they see one are willie waving. You live and learn.

 

Many years ago I was talking to an ex Camden man while waiting for 46201 to appear, he said the class was known as a corky Liz there were so many oiling points.
I agree with your point about the Mid Hants, it does have some proper gradients to make them cough a bit. What I meant was a Pacific is a bit ungainly and expensive to work on a heritage line given the average train length and the branch line nature of most lines.

 

Lizzies, often referred to as LMS Castles with regards to lubrication.