Jacobite 2024

My view of that pair is much the same as the view I held of a Man Utd v Chelsea match in the days of Ferguson and Mourinho - you wanted both sides to lose. Both Smith and Hosking are obnoxious individuals in their own ways and now we have, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, "a cosy duopoly".

 

Just seen a video of yesterdays Jacobite which includes non CDL Mk 1's interspaced with the Mk2's, the Mk1's have a big notice on the door windows, i take it this would mean the doors are locked out of use?
consist was 45212 Mk2, Mk1 buffet, Mk2, Mk1, Mk2, Mk1, Mk2

 

Discussed at length on the last several pages of this thread.

 

Apologies!!

 

You would be banning plenty of other TOCs and FOCs if that attitude was allowed to persist. Rail accidents / incidents that have been down to TOC / FOC error are not something that lies with WCR only. Look at the pulling down coal on 70000 on the move incident with LSL…we are all fallible.
Luckily it’s not down to you.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent, both organisations are led by individuals who have questionable ethics and attitudes towards others - you could argue both are successful businessmen because of their ruthlessness. However, ruthlessness (and also arrogance) can easily become a negative as well as a positive - sometimes you need others to point out the bigger picture. I hope there is someone (or others) available to do this at 10A..
Groups and businesses are though a sum of many people and more than just one individual though - this needs to be celebrated. LSL have done some extraordinary work through restoration workshops and I feel have set new standards for comfort and customer service. West Coast have an unrivalled legacy of promoting steam on the mainline and have broken down many barriers to steam over the years.
I would not wish to see either organisation fail. Some competition can be healthy, but needs to be of benefit to the industry as a whole.

 

I agree - but while I want the companies to survive and thrive, I'm much less sure when it comes to their owners. And that makes it tricky when those owners are so much part of the character of their businesses.

 

Suggesting that you don't necessarily want the owners to survive is possibly a bit extreme for some of us.

On a more serious note, its such a niche business one would assume that no one would choose to get involved for purely business/commercial reasons which in turn may explain the characters it seems to attract.

 

To be honest I see no particular extreme behaviour exhibited by either organisation when compared to many companies I dealt with that were led (dominated?) by a singularly minded individual who often owned all or most of that company.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I wish the owners no personal harm! But it's really difficult to express the wish that the firm does well while simultaneously being far from heartbroken if the owners' conduct causes them, as individuals, to lose their shirt.

I agree on motivation - there must be a really high level of commitment involved.

 

I think that was beautifully put, acorb. Summed up what I'd been feeling about LSL and WCRC for a while. Having also - in a very different industry but also one reliant on passion and long hours - spent a long part of my career at somewhere eventually acquired by a company it was hard to like, I'm very aware that the character of an owner is unlikely to reflect the characters of all those making it happen at the coalface or need necessarily mar your view of the quality of that organisation's end output (in these cases, their charters - which acorb rightly praises). And many of the employees are likely to be as underwhelmed by owners' politics and/or actions (delete as appropriate) as many of us on here, yet can put that aside to do a job they believe in to the best of their ability. I can't imagine approaching this CDL situation as WCRC has and I definitely can't imagine supporting some of the politics LSL's owner has. But if I had a load of money I too would probably own quite a lot of steam engines and class 37s, so I'll embrace that common ground...

 

Read a report elsewhere that 45212 slipped to a stand just past Glenfinnan station. The train stood for an hour while the passengers were told the line was very slippery and they were awaiting more sand. The train sat there for another hour before being taken back to Fort William by a diesel where the train was terminated. Apparently all the passengers were freezing cold and fed up. So was the heating switched off as well as the lighting?

Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk

 

Not sure it switched off, more like was never on. No ETH supply.

 

Steam heat pipe /ETH cable interface issue …

 

Having read Mr Woolmar (a legend in his own mind IMHO) it seems to push the view that WCRC is a cowboy company whereas I feel that WCRC is a company prepared to challenge boundaries - especially when they keep being extended. In the specific case of the Jacobite it has run successfully for many years without incident hence the concern of WCRC being forced to apply a "belt and braces" solution to a problem that has yet to arise. In a parallel experience I am alive today because I broke the law ! Many years ago the laws introduced to have cars fitted with safety belts. I was driving a private hire car (exempt IIRC from the regulations) which was involved in a major incident which saw the 2 cars involved (one a London taxi) written off and heard the police in attendance ask for an ambulance to collect the (dead) drivers body. When I advised them that I was the "dead driver" their surprise was great but I explained that I wasn't wearing a seat belt hence had the freedom to be forced to one side rather than be protected (restrained) by a seat belt and have the steering wheel crash through my chest. A check of the vehicle showed a gap of 6 inches between the steering wheel and the driver's seat hence my appreciation of "rules for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience by fools". As mentioned in today's proposed ban on smoking for those born after 2009 there seems a growing appetite to remove self responsibility under the guise of better protection for the general population without regard to the costs of ensuring that protection as noted with current concerns over "smart" motorways which also infringe personal responsibility without paying for / providing the supporting actions such as safety zones at pre-determined distances and CCTV coverage. In that context I agree with WCRC challenging the boundaries and note the civil servants imposing rules without consequence to them or consideration of the costs being imposed.

Rant over

 

Fred - your rule breaking saved your life. WCRC's rule breaking nearly ended up with one of the biggest accidents in railway history involving 700 people on two trains, and ended up with them being banned from operating trains for a while and a £200,000 fine. They're potentially cancelling about 50 of their own and other customers' trips this year because they don't have the stock available to operate them. It'll cost them less to fit CDL to a couple of rakes of Mk1s than they're losing in income!

The Jacobite hasn't been without incident. Nor have their other operations. Wolmar isn't wrong - they've been known as Wild West Coast and the Carnforth Cowboys for many years. 10A's nickname is The Ranch for crying out loud! The Jacobite is running this week, half empty, with no heating and no lighting. That is not acceptable! The temperature is in low single digits in the Highlands overnight and barely making it into double figures during the day, and there's no way of heating any of the carriages. You have to feel sorry for Monday's passengers who were stuck on board for hours.

Then you get to the debacle of running three coaches with the doors locked out of use. The rule book only mentions about vehicles entering service with defective doors locked out of use - it doesn't say anything about working doors being locked out of use, because normally no one is stupid enough to put a carriage into service with all the doors locked.

I really don't understand what they're playing at or what they're trying to prove.

 

@5944 says most for me. I’ll add one thing. I don’t mind rules being challenged, for precisely the reasons you give.

But I do mind bloody minded refusal to obey rules regardless. What we’re now seeing is the one thing worse than the blind obedience of fools, and that’s wilful blind disobedience.

As for the working of safety, I will just recall when my kids were small. The life saving devices in our car dashboards were, for rear facing seats, life threatening. That doesn’t invalidate airbags, but demonstrate (a) that tools need to be used carefully and (b) how safety gains are often delivered by a net improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

A pretty scummy way of painting all their dedicated, hard working and professional staff as cowboys. Writing on this forum like this must make you feel really big and important.

 

All Nigel is saying is how a vast percentage of people on here see it,no burying head in sand

 

It may be unfair on the staff, though I don't think anyone is suggesting that they're less than professional. But then the question needs to remain about why the company management are making the decisions that they are making, which are leading to situations like those described.