Saphos 2024

Hopefully, 61306 is fit to run today,
Not that it matters as long as the excellent meal service arrives on time.

Will have to put a photo of D213 on my instagram along side, the photos of my food,
Or maybe D1966.

 

If you pay your £ to LSL you know what you are going to get. What frustrates me is that given all the moaning on this forum is that the one run this year that was advertised as being diesel free still had some seats unsold on the day. Granted 'The Great Western' wasn't the cheapest, but I did think most enthusiasts would be biting Vintage Trains' hands off to travel on this trip.
On the other hand, the majority of LSL services seem to have no issue shifting tickets - what are promoters going to take from this?

 

Meanwhile I'm wondering if WCR have had to cancel the June runs of the Dalesman. Looks like their first run out of Carnforth is now planned to be the SSE on 27 June.

 

61306 Mayflower at Norton Fitzwarren on the English Riviera Express to Kingswear.

 

Yes, but the majority of LSL customers are the well heeled wine and diners. I am afraid the true steam enthusiast is increasingly being left behind, mainly due to the eye watering prices being charged even for standard class. Bear in mind these excursions were originally concieved for railway enthusiasts. not as mobile posh restaurants, which they seem to have become. When i first travelled on a CME over 40 years ago,i think the fare was 12 quid, and there wasnt a meal in sight.....and it was packed with railway enthusiasts.

 

61306 Mayflower leaving Taunton on the English Riviera Express to Kingswear

 

Unfortunately nowadays the enthusiast market it very small. I work at two different heritage railways and at both the enthusiast passenger figures are very small. We are talking 10-15% at the very most of the yearly figures. Even when we host Enthusiast Events there is still a large number of families/day trippers/non-enthusiasts attending.

The number of enthusiasts is not realistically going to increase in the future so we have to adapt how our sector treats things.

Thats where LSL do it very well. They have adapted and created a market to suit. They do get the odd enthusiast, like myself, travel. I do it for both the hobby and the fine food and drink. But I’d really say 80-90% of those in the same coach aren’t enthusiasts. But without that % the train wouldn’t run.

 

But there is so much that has changed in life, the market and rail in that time.
Maybe if there was still a Pullman service on regular trains then people would not be keen to travel by rail and have dining.
People now expect far more from their service provider whoever they are, or whatever market it may be.
Rail costs have rocketed, BR it seems generally agreed were operating tours at a loss. Reading through John Bird's book on the End of Southern Steam recently. So apart that locos that were brought down from Scotland, A4, V2 etc for Railtours a Brit came down from up North for a scheduled 24 miles from Westbury to Salisbury, totally bonkers.
When I started at BOAC in 1970, there was economy and First Class. Air travel as we only half jokingly said, was for the well off and staff. Now anyone who wants to can fly, the back end has been downgraded and the further forward you go the more it has been upgraded, sometimes stupidly so (on board showers with the price of jet fuel really!) Coincidently this was in last nights Evening Standard. Having spent most of my Procurement career purchasing these very things it is a very good article. In many ways much of the philosophy can be read across to railtours. I am sure JH sees his brands for more Emirates than Ryanair (other LCC's are available).
https://www.standard.co.uk//comment...s_email_2024-05-31&utm_term=ES_News_Daily_CDP

 

I’ve done on train sales for a loco owning group on a few railtours, while fine dining is definitely not the place to find many enthusiasts it is where the money is. The average take on souvenirs and raffle tickets is much higher than in second class. Having said that it’s not true to think that they don’t care about what’s hauling the train, we get a lot of questions about the engine and its history. It’s the same on the upmarket Belmond with many passengers coming up to the support crew at Victoria asking the same sort of questions.
I think passengers can be roughly divided into two groups, those in the older generation reliving childhood trips by train and others just out for a day trip with a difference. This is especially noticeable on the RTC Weymouth trains with quite a few family groups.
It may be different on the tours that enthusiasts would relate to such as the end of Southern Steam trip to Weymouth or the Atlantic Coast Express. I was on the support crew for the latter in 2022 and there did seem to be a fair number of railway enthusiasts come up to look at the engine at Waterloo including a contingent of retired Southern footplatemen. It’s certainly different to the trips I did back in the 70/80s, but the experience now is not one to attract enthusiasts, no door hanging or leaning out of windows etc.
I must admit that ambling along on a heritage railway doesn’t do a lot for me but if I visit a gala or event I always make a donation equivalent to the price of a day rover ticket. Sad to say that when I did this at the Glos and Warwick’s recent gala the surprise expressed by the railway staff suggested it was something of a rarity. As photographers we get pleasure from the efforts of those putting on the show so we should pay for it. If the railways don’t make the money there will be no such spectacles for us to see.

 

Even so, change happens quite quickly. A year ago, if you had told me there would only be three unassisted steam trips on the main line (Jacobite aside) in the first half of '24, I wouldn't have believed it. And we don't really know what Vintage's CDL plans are for 2025 and how that will affect their ops. If unassisted steam is going to be a rarity, maybe we should have a reminiscences thread for us 'in your dreams' brigade.

 

Not necessarily - I don't fit into either of those groups. I'm a 60 year old who doesn't remember steam in BR days. I developed an interest both in steam and the history of the railways in my thirties. It's something that has given me enormous pleasure over the last 25 years and I have done many galas and mainline tours in that time.
My point is we don't need to categorise people into "enthusiasts" and "posh diners". Last Saturday I was definitely in enthusiast mode riding in a brake van on the GWSR. Three days later I was a "posh diner" on the Steam Dreams tour to Norwich. So don't assume all the diners are not interested in trains. I sometimes get the feeling reading the comments that people begrudge the diners being there. There is no need for that - everyone is welcome as far as I'm concerned and if the diners bring in the money that allows main line steam to continue then so be it.

And please let's stop moaning about diesels on the back - I happily remember the days when they were the exception rather than the rule, but that's changed now for a whole number of reasons and we'd better get used to it.

 

Been a good day out, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Just sitting in Gloucester Yard after a stonking 90mph run with 40013. Paignton heaving due to us, the PF charter and the airshow. Only gripe is Saphos have replaced the complimentary bottle of Bucks Fizz with a bottle of far too sweet cider.

 

Horror, they will be charging for toilet use next

 

I think you’ve misunderstood what I was saying

 

Why the curious assumption that "true steam enthusiasts"are only interested in travelling standard class? There are quite a few "well heeled" and "diner" enthusiasts I can assure you.

 

61306 Mayflower at Kingswear today

 

I dont think many folk have a problem with a diesel locos on the back its when the damned things push harder than what they need to what is the problem.

 

Do you think you can just turn a steam loco on just with the turn of a key?

Yes, I do think its a good thing,
It is called having a contingency plan,
Cause nowhere is gonna have a steam loco ready to turn on with the turn of a key.