Brighton Belle update

LSL are going to directly compete with Belmond with the Brighton Belle.

Being smaller means it can run more flexibly, with just a driver and guard, as well as an appropriate number of kitchen and serving staff for the customers. It is restricted to the third rail unless it has a 73 or similar to work with though which keeps it from competing with Belmond with travel to Bath or Oxford.

Imagine the Belle departing London at 9am, with the passengers being served brunch, before heading to Robertsbridge where the passengers can either enjoy a steam train ride, a trip to a Vineyard or a trip to Bodiam Castle. Then they are whizzed back to London whilst having a five course meal. And you could run this every week between April and October potentially.

 

I doubt if Robertsbridge will be one of the destinations, mostly because I would imagine the trip would have to include first class accommodation, on the KESR,
It would probably mean using the Wealden Pulman, then if you're going that far, you might as well have the meal on that, which defeats the object, more likely will be popular southern destinations, such as Canterbury, Weymouth, Brighton, with option for Eastbourne, And possibly a few others such as some of the more Edwardian resorts, such as Bognor Regis, Robertsbridge could work, if the intenery was a return trip to Tenterden, on the Wealden Pullman, with lunch, and the run back to London was just coffee and light refreshments, But I can't see LSL, wanting to in effect sub contract the food,

 

What about a day of recreating its original route

 

Robertsbridge to London is an hour and a quarter if "whizzing". Good luck serving a five course meal to a trainload of passengers in that timeframe.

 

The only way that could be done, would mean a convoluted route, most likely involving running first back to Hastings, then on to Eastbourne, Brighton, then along the Brighton main line back to Victoria, that would take a good couple of hours longer,

 

I quite fancy a trip to Southport or Chester on it. Plenty of 3rd rail up there.

 

So no confirmed dates for the tests, presumably in the Autumn, or even tours on Merseyrail?

 

A tour with a mixture of 3rd rail and steam would be interesting?
However a 4 car tour from London to Swanage (partly with a Mogul) could have advantages: 1. will fit into the restricted space at Swanage during the summer peak without too much disruption to services, 2 one of the carriages was based at Swanage for a while, so there is a bit of a historical connection.

 

Wonder if it will work on 4th rail
Met Pullman anyone?

 

630V instead of 750, unless the underground has been uprated in recent years, As long as the earth return can be made via the running rail instead of the central rail, it might be possible

 

Not possible, Brighton belle stock is air brake, so would need a network rail registered 33, or 73, to provide traction and as nothing uses the 27-way push -pull equipment on the main line, you would have to run round before returning to NR.

 

Apart from the air brake issue I thought 31806 no longer fitted anywhere down this way.

 

Slight bit of concern.
Will it fit the tunnels?

 

So if the Brighton Belle could get from London to Wareham by 3rd rail, network rail registered 33012 could be used to tow it from Wareham to Swanage, turn round and take it back to Wareham, where it could pick up 3rd rail electric back to London? Sounds a good day out?

 

Does the signalling at Wareham support the attaching / detaching manoeuvres that would be required?

Tom

 

Except, that it would be an LSL operation, so they might have to stable a diesel at Eastleigh, and attach it there, and remove it again , 33012 I don't think is registered with LSL. they would use one of their own locos,

 

Braunton (in its Lord Dowding guise) was removed from the back of an up train at Wareham, but I do not believe the signalling would support attaching a loco to a down service or removing one from the front of an up service, at least until the OOU sidings are allowed to be used, which of course is all tied up wit the infamous foot crossing issue.
I guess someone from the Swanage Wareham operation may know for sure.
If you wanted to diesel haul it it would probably have to be done further towards London. But far easier I guess just to run electric all the way to Weymouth surely, already a regular LSL destination with Statesman and the odd SD trip.

 

Yes... but initial 'word' is that it will only be between Chester - Hooton - Rock Ferry to avoid the 'Loop' (concerns over through corridor access, breakdown recovery and outward opening doors?).
The tunnels were designed in the 1800s for steam traction, there is plenty of room. Class 47s and 73/0s have been through on engineering trains, as well as BR standard stock ( the ex class 501s).
The Southport stock fits, and that is wider and taller than the 503s and 507s.

 

Earlier post answered ...

 

With works beginning in 2016 most of the sub-surface UndergrounD network's now been uprated to 750V (i.e. Met, District, Circle, Hammersmith & City - all using S-stock trains). Still 630V in the bits shared with other lines using Tube-stock trains.

The 2024-Stock tube trains (1st one for delivery soon) are 750V capable and I believe the heritage 1938-stock train and Met. No.12 Sarah Siddons’ve been upgraded, in their recent overhauls, to accommodate the higher voltage (though unfortunately they may not be compatible with future signalling upgrades).